TCW 219 - Diablo 1

Jeffrey: This is They Create Worlds, Episode 219, Diablo 1.

[Intro music -- Airplane Mode]

Welcome to They Create Worlds. I'm Jeffrey, and I hope that you stay a while and listen to us.

Alex: Li- lis- listen to who?

Jeffrey: Alex was a bit busy, so we decided to have someone else show up and say...

[Deckard Cain] Sray a while and listen!

We will be having our special guest for the first time on the podcast, Deckard Cain.

Alex: Hello?

Jeffrey: [Alex and Jeffrey Laugh]

You need to identify this video game, Deckard. I got lots of them from a dungeon.

Alex: Oh, God.

Jeffrey: No, but that person there... We don't really have Deckard Cain. We don't have guests. Why would we do something like that? We have to talk about a game, Diablo. But first, some quick housekeeping.

Alex: Yes.

Jeffrey: For some reason, we're going to be sitting at our computers for hours on end on October 12th.

Alex: Yes. Not just for any old reason, Jeffrey. It's not as random as you make it out to be, because that will be our annual livestream extravaganza, where we film the recording of three episodes back-to-back-to-back in one very, very, very long day.

Jeffrey: And you can watch the horror live on twitch.tv/tcwpodcast.

Alex: That's right. Come for a few minutes, come for a few hours, be really insane, which some of our people are, and come for the whole thing. We have fun with it, we interact with the audience, and we do a three-part episode on something really, really big that can fill all of those hours, and this time, that really, really big thing is Dungeons & Dragons & Video Games. Big three-part episode where we start by looking at the origins and creation of Dungeons & Dragons, move on from there to show how Dungeons & Dragons started bleeding into the computer game space fairly early, and then keep rattling on about further influences of D&D until everyone gets bored or we have way too much for three episodes and have to just stop. That will be the topic. Celebrating the 50th. 50th anniversary of D&D, which was, of course, this year.

Jeffrey: Well, if we have way too much content, obviously that means we need to go into a fourth episode.

Alex: Oh, God. We've only done that once. Only once. We're never doing it again. [Jeffrey laughs evily] No, I mean, I don't know exactly how the end will take shape, but, you know, we'll talk a bit about dungeons and dragon-y kinds of things.

Jeffrey: So we're going to have to entertain ourselves otherwise by going into a different dungeon and fight dragons that got turned into demons and soul shards and some sort of company called Blizzard North?

Alex: Yes, indeed. We are here to talk about the game Diablo, which somehow the trained monkeys that were responsible for compiling the list of 100 most influential games the first time we did it five years ago neglected to put on the list. They have been severely reprimanded. Their banana rations have been cut.

Jeffrey: And they lost their poster of the banana tree, too.

Alex: Exactly. It was the best of times. It was the blirst of times. Stupid monkey.

Jeffrey: That's right. Bonus points if you get that reference.

Alex: Indeed. So, of course, we did add it to the list for our second round, our update that we just did, eh which really got me thinking, this game is so important, let's do an episode on it. I mean, we did some Blizzard Entertainment episodes back in the day, so we- we covered it some, but really wanted to give this an in-depth look because I talk often and I still think, this is true, that you can divide the PC world into, you know, BD and AD, before Doom and after Doom. But there's an equally compelling case that Diablo had almost as big an influence on the direction that video games have taken in the last roughly 30 years. Almost 30 years, Jeffrey. Think about that.

Jeffrey: We're old and you kids need to get off my lawn.

Alex: [Laughs]

It's really a game that's worthy of its own in-depth look. So we're going to, not just Diablo, because, I mean, as we discussed, about in a Redux episode, it's arguable which one was really the more important, Diablo or Diablo 2, just because Diablo 2 was such a polished rendition of what they originally attempted in Diablo. So we're going to do a two-part look. We're going to do Diablo today. We'll do Diablo 2 and maybe a little more about what happened to the Blizzard North guys after that, when they accidentally almost invented the loot shooter, but didn't quite make it, in the next episode. And then after that, it'll probably be the livestream episodes, I suppose.

Jeffrey: Maybe. We might have some filler in between. Who knows?

Alex: I don't think so at this point, because we're recording the October 1st episode. So that means that the October 1st and 15th will be Diablo. The livestream's 12th. Well, we may have one more filler in there. We'll see. But you have a pretty good idea about what most of the rest of the year is going to look like at They Create Worlds now.

Jeffrey: So what's the Christmas episode?

Alex: We only did that twice. That's not a tradition. There aren't enough good Christmas stories. We just did that twice.

Jeffrey: Aw. Okay, kids. Come up with more holidays for Alex to do video games on.

Alex: Indeed.

Jeffrey: So Diablo and Blizzard North.

Alex: Yes.

Jeffrey: We've done histories of Blizzard, all these Vikings in the World of Warcraft, Hellfire in the World of Warcraft. We know basically what they did. They were up north, northern California. It was extra cold. That's why they got the extra cold logo.

Alex: Yes, indeed.

Jeffrey: They were sort of pseudo-acquired by Blizzard and then merged into things and all sorts of crazy stuff.

Alex: Yeah, they were acquired. And we're definitely going to go back and look at the entire history of the studio that became Blizzard North because that history is important to informing exactly how things went down with the game. We are going to start with the founders of this company, a programmer by the name of David Brevik and a pair of artist-slash-game-designer brothers named Max and Eric Schaefer.

Jeffrey: Not Sam and Max?

Alex: No.

Jeffrey: Aw.

Alex: Different company. Different time. These individuals did not know each other as children. Well, I mean, the Schaefer brothers did, obviously. But Brevik and the Schaefers didn't know each other as children, but they both had somewhat similar backgrounds. They were all born between the years of 1965 and 1968. They all played Dungeons & Dragons as children and were really enamored with Dungeons & Dragons, and we're talking OG here, because they were introduced to it in the late 70s. So we're talking even some OG Dungeons & Dragons even before AD&D came around. They both ended up with Apple II Plus computers very early. Their introductions to video games were slightly different. David Brevik was first introduced really through the Golden Age, arcade video games, games like Asteroids and Space Invaders and all of that good stuff. The Schaefer brothers, whose father worked for the Rand Corporation, they actually had one of the home Pong consoles that came out in the late 70s. It wasn't Atari's version, it was one of the clones, but they had one of those consoles and then, of course, graduated up to the Apple II Plus computers. So they came at video games slightly different ways, but they both ended up on Apple II Pluses, specifically. Not just any old Apple II model. They were both introduced to that wider world of games that fascinated them, including Ultima and Wizardry. So these people were all pretty into RPGs from a fairly young age, both pen and paper RPGs and the early computer RPGs in the early 1980s. David Brevik, his family in particular, moved around a lot. They moved all over the country because of his father's job. They just kept relocating. Until in his, I believe, junior year of high school, they ended up in a little town in California called Danville that sat right at the base of a local landmark called Mount Diablo.

Jeffrey: Hrmmm.

Alex: Not a coincidence. [Laughs] By this time, he was already deep into computer programming because he was one of these kids that when he discovered computers, it wasn't just, oh, there are these fun games, but it was also, ooh, what all can I do with this computer to make my own stuff? So he had done a small number of amateur games as a high school student, and he submitted them to Insider magazine, which was one of several Apple II computer magazines that would publish type-in listings that people submitted. John Romero was a frequent contributor to Insider and other magazines of its ilk as well. So he'd already had some experience with this, and he had already been exposed to RPGs, and he really thought this Diablo, this Mount Diablo, this name was really cool. He kind of resolved at that point, you know, when he was still in high school, in the like mid, I suppose, 80s, that he would create some kind of game based around that concept. You know, he discovered that it was a Spanish word for devil, and like this whole demon thing sounded cool. This was not the birth of Diablo. We’re not to the birth of the game yet. But this is the moment when this idea of doing something called Diablo first kind of entered his mind. The other thing that he was introduced to around this time, because he was also very active on early BBSs and early network systems, is he discovered a little thing called the roguelike.

Jeffrey: And not just any roguelike, but probably some of the original roguelikes.

Alex: Well, no, it wasn't. It wasn't rogue and it wasn't NetHack, but it was two games in particular, Moria and Angband, both named after locations in the legendarium of J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. Moria, of course, being the mines under the Misty Mountains, the former kingdom of Khazad-Dum that the Fellowship goes through in Fellowship of the Ring, and Angband being the fortress of Melkor in the First Age. Big bad guy. He fell in love with, particularly Angband was his favorite, and with this idea of these procedurally generated dungeons full of monsters to kill, treasures to find, gear that drops for you to upgrade yourself. The other thing that set Angband apart from other roguelikes at the time was, in addition to all of that stuff, it also, rather than just dropping you on floor one of the dungeon and having you go through it, the first screen, the first area is actually a town situated right above the dungeon, where you can buy and sell things as well. Geez, none of this sounds like a game that you or I have played on a 386 computer at a very slow pace, does it, Jeffrey?

Jeffrey: No. Couldn't be Castle of the Winds.

Alex: [Laughs] No, obviously, you know, you can already see a bit of the beginnings of Diablo in Angband, and that's not a coincidence, because that was one of the major influences on Diablo. Because it not only had that roguelike stuff, and Brevik himself has said this, I mean, there's been a lot of coverage, Brevik and the Shafers have given a lot of interviews, the best source is definitely David Craddock's two-volume set, Stay Awhile and Listen, the first book covering Diablo 1, the second book covering Diablo 2, a lot of the factual information that we're pulling into this episode comes from those two books, though we'll also be providing our usual context within the larger realm of video game history as well, we're not just doing an abridged version of Craddock's work in these two episodes, but definitely a shout-out there, because he's done a lot of the legwork, he's the one that delved most of the dungeon before us and scored a lot of the best loot. Brevik has been very open about the fact that Angband was one of his main inspirations, and as I said, even without that, if you just look at it, you can tell, because you start in a town, and then you descend in a dungeon, and then it has all the usual roguelike stuff. This whole idea is floating around, and he goes to college, and he's not very enthused about college, like, he really wants to make games, I mean, like I say, he's already been doing it, he's been submitting to magazines, and that's what he wants to do for a living. So he kind of meanders through college, I mean, he graduates, but he's not really there to learn anything in particular, he's just there to get through it, so he can get on and do the thing that he really wants to do. Pausing there and turning our attention back to the Shafers again, Eric, the older brother, was very much somewhat similar in the whole college was really not for him thing, and in fact, he never ended up graduating. He kind of went around to a couple of different schools, spent five and a half years in college, but then never really stuck with it, never ended up getting a degree. His brother Max did get a degree, but he was similar, like, he started as a physics major, which is what their father was as well, he was a physicist for the Rand Corporation. Then moved on to an environmental studies thing, because it was going to be an easier field, and again, the passion wasn't really there for the college thing, but he did get his degree, unlike Eric, and they were just under two years apart in age, something like 18 months, I think, apart in age. Even though he was a couple of years behind in college, you know, by the time he graduated, his brother had just gotten out of college not that long ago either, because he had been spending five and a half years in the wilderness, and then went back to live at their parents' house while he tried to figure out his life, whatever that was going to be. At that point, when Max graduated, he got, as a graduation present, a shiny, new, Apple Macintosh computer.

Jeffrey: So, one of the early first GUI applications and deployments.

Alex: Exactly. This gift spurred the two brothers to decide to get into the business of desktop publishing.

Jeffrey: It's computers. Everyone wanted to do desktop publishing back then. Oh, look, the computer can do all the crazy things.

Alex: Well, and remember, the Macintosh basically started the field of desktop publishing. There were competing products that came out around the same time, like the Newsroom that worked on the Commodore 64 and whatnot. But the Macintosh, by virtue of its GUI interface and its very high resolution, even though the original was black and white, the resolution was very high compared to some other computers, meant that it was really the first truly ideal platform for desktop publishing. And indeed, a lot of the early sales were to small business owners that wanted to do their own desktop publishing. That was one of the major applications. So, yeah, I mean, this really was the new hotness. They were trying to ride a new wave that really was a trend at that time. So, they joined with another person, a friend of theirs, who was a better programmer than they were, because even though they could kind of sort of program a little bit, they weren't great at it. They were okay artists, like they weren't really artists by trade either, but they were decent artists and they were really good designers, but less on the programming. So, they found a programmer, joined with him to create a company called Desktop Heroes. Well, you know, as we said, everyone was kind of getting into the desktop publishing business at this time, so it wasn't necessarily that cutting edge or that interesting for the public at large for there to be yet another desktop publishing company out there in the world. They were kind of struggling along, trying to make ends meet. Nothing much was happening, and then they ended up making a fortuitous connection with another company called FM Waves, which was involved in another hot category in this time period, clip art.

Jeffrey: Oh, God, clip art. Kids, if you don't know about clip art, imagine back in the day, you didn't have internet and you had all this wonderful desktop publishing stuff and you had your reports to make for school, your reports to do this, your whatever, presentation on this, that, or the other thing, and you need art. Today, we do wonderful, wonderful piracy or open source pictures in order to add to our presentations.

Alex: Yes.

Jeffrey: Back then, we didn't have this internet, information super highway, or whatever it is that these kids were calling it back then. We had to go out to a store, like criminals and buy our clip art. [Alex chuckles] You had to buy it and then you had to hope that it had the clip art you wanted.

Alex: Mhmmm.

Jeffrey: They would show you some pictures on the box, maybe, and you could buy like 100, 50, 25 for $25, $50, $100. It was crazy. And then they would go, oh, you have pack one of clip art. You obviously need our pack two and three and four and five and six. [Alex chuckles] You can see where I'm going with this.

Alex: Indeed. Yeah, it was a very lucrative segment of the business. Of course, Broderbund with the Print Shop... You know, the Print Shop didn't start as a clip art program. It started as a program to make greeting cards and banners. But very quickly, once the whole clip art thing started, the Print Shop from Broderbund really embraced the idea of clip art packs as well and became an absolute juggernaut for the company. This was a period of time, you know, with desktop publishing, with clip art, where computers were finally maturing to the point for the first time that there were actually real consumer applications for computers beyond playing games. They had tried in the home computer revolution in the early 80s. They're like, you can balance your checkbook, you can store your recipes, and none of that nonsense was actually useful. But flash forward to the late 80s and you have better screen resolutions and GUI interfaces and better operating systems. And you're actually starting to get into stuff that computers can do better than you can do by hand in areas that small business owners and home users were actually interested in. Obviously, in the early days, VisiCalc, was huge for businesses on spreadsheets, but your home user, your typical home user, doesn't need a spreadsheet application, or at least didn't back then. This was the true beginning of the home computer as a useful consumer device. And so clip art was big business pre-internet, for sure. You know, desktop publishing and clip art are somewhat related fields. So they ended up making contact with these guys, like I said, called FM Waves, which was a small company founded by Efraim Wyeth and Mike Sigal. So that's where they got the FM of FM Waves, because Efraim went by EF E-F for short, which sounds like F, and then the M from Mike, and then Waves because it's this new wave in technology. So they had FM Waves. They hired on the Schaffers, who primarily worked as artists, because as I said, even though that wasn't like their primary trained profession or anything, they were half-decent artists. So they were working for artists at this company that was making clip art for people. Then, hings took an unexpected turn. It's kind of crazy how these guys all got together and how they ended up getting started at these little companies. It's a little bit of an atypical story, and it's kind of fun the connections. It turns out that Ephraim's father, you know, they were Jewish, and it turns out that his father was from the same town in Poland as a little guy called Jack Tramiel.

Jeffrey: From Commodore?

Alex : Yes, the Jack Tramiel. No longer at Commodore by this point, because we're in the late 1980s, but the head of Atari Corporation, and actually into the early 90s by this point. Because of this connection between the fathers, Efraim's father ends up introducing his son to Jack Tramiel. They get to talking, and they tell him about their company and whatnot, and then Jack Tramiel, because it's a period of time when they are trying to push the Atari Lynx handheld system, and they never have enough developers. Atari never have enough developers for a variety of reasons, some of which not their fault, some of which very much their fault. So he was like, oh, you have this company, this computer software company. Can you make games? Ephraim's like, sure we can. Because you always say sure you can when someone big and important who has money asks you if you can do something.

Jeffrey: Because that means they'll give you the money.

Alex: Exactly. So he had no idea what it was actually going to take to create a game. He and Mike had no experience in this area. But he was like, sure we can! So they get a contract from Atari Corporation, from the Tramiels, to make a game for the Atari Lynx. You know, they have Max and Eric on staff, and Max and Eric can absolutely do the art, but they don't have a really hot programmer that can make games. So they go out to start looking for one. They make contact with some recruiters and start putting out the word that they need a game. programmer. Right at this exact moment, one Mr. David Brevik had just finished college, gotten married, and was looking to break into the game making business. He had experience, like I said. I mean, he'd never done anything professionally, but I mean, he knew how to program and he had done some programming on games before. Like, this is truly what he wanted to do. He happened to hook up with this recruiter who was like, there's this clip art company called FM Waves, and he was looking for a programmer. And David was like, but that's clip art. I said I wanted to make games. And then the recruiter was like, no, no, no, you don't understand. They want to make games now too. So David Brevik was hired to be the programmer for FM Waves on their new game, working alongside the Schaefer brothers, as well as Efraim , Mike, the co-founders of the company. The game idea, I think, comes from the founders of the company. I'm pretty sure. They end up working on this game. It was released. I don't really know much about it, but we can put it in the show notes. They end up working on this platforming game with the unusual name of Gordo 106. They wanted to do a game that had kind of non-traditional movement. So kind of inspired by Spider-Man back in the day before there were a million Spider-Man games like there are now. They came up with the idea of doing something where the main character has a swinging motion. You know he can swing around to move, which leads to him being a laboratory experiment, a monkey, Gordo 106. Obviously, today, that would not be nearly as novel because, like I said, there have been a million Spider-Man games, all with the swinging. But back then, that was a less common form of movement. So they're working on this game, Gordo 106, and during the development, the Schaefers and David Brevik really hit it off, which is not surprising. They're similar ages. They had similar likes with the D&D and the computer games and all of that stuff. As they're talking, you know, at the office and hanging out with each other and whatever else, they kind of are like, you know, why are we making games for somebody else? Like, we have all of the skills between us to make a game. You know, we should make a game together. They weren't really looking to go into business for themselves at this time. They weren't looking to break away yet. So a lot of this was just kind of joking around, kind of wishful thinking, like, wouldn't it be nice if we would do this thing together? They jokingly called this Project Condor. Craddock doesn't actually expand on this, but I assume it probably has something to do with the classic Robert Redford ‘Day of the Condor’ movie. You know, because that was kind of about clandestine operations, and so it was probably this idea that we have this secret plan to make our own game kind of thing. But there was no actual game they were working on. There was no actual Project Condor. This was just like their joke. It's like, yeah, we'll make our own game with Blackjack and hookers and we'll call it Project Condor.

Jeffrey: Three days of the Condor is the actual movie.

Alex: Yeah, you're right. Three Days of the Condor. I misspoke. You know, they're working on this game, but things are not going well because you remember how I said the Atari and the Tramels always had problems getting game developers and some of the reasons were not their fault, but some of the reasons very much were their fault. Remember that?

Jeffrey: Yeah, I remember something about not giving them money?

Alex: Yes. So the Tramels were never ones to pay out money when they didn't feel someone could make them do it. This was something that they would do a lot with suppliers. They would squeeze suplpliers. Where you know there would be milestone payments or installment payments and they would find some excuse to hold up the payment for as long as possible so they could squeeze whatever more out of that money before they passed it along. And so, uh, wouldn't you know, the good folks at Atari weren't always great at providing the promised milestone payments to FM Waves on time for the development of this Gordo game. Yeah, so things were a bit shaky there, and by a bit shaky, I mean really shaky, and by really shaky, I mean after a few months the payroll checks started bouncing when our good friends tried to take them to Mr. Bank.

Jeffrey: That's not good. Giving bad checks in bad faith is illegal, I hear.

Alex: I don't think it was in bad faith. I don't think they were doing any kind of criminal enterprise. But the point is, the company was having a bit of trouble making payroll. Money was not materializing as it was supposed to. Max and Eric, I think, had a little more loyalty because, you know, they'd been with the company for a while. David Brevik didn't really have any loyalty to the company. He was a Johnny-come-lately brought on to do this video game. Max and Eric kind of shrugged it off and kept working. David was like, this is nonsense. I'm out of here. So he actually left before development on Gordo was complete and decided to look for a better situation. He discovered in the want ads a recently established company by the name of Iguana Entertainment.

Iguana, founded by Jeff Spangenberg, was an absolutely brand new company in Santa Clara, California, very near where David Brevik was living at the time, that was founded in order to do contract programming for major publishers on console games, which was a very, very in-demand line of business at the end of the 8-bit era, the beginning of the 16-bit era. You had a ton of little publishers that wanted to cash in on this market, both American and foreign, mostly Japanese, but not only Japanese, as we'll see in a little bit in this very story. These companies would often, you know, put together a little money, get some fun licenses with the money, and then would need to actually contract out to people that knew how to make games to actually make the game. So this was a real golden age for independent contract developers. In the United States, in Japan, in the United Kingdom, like all over the world, there were tons of these contract developers. Iguana was a form to get in on this whole thing. Brevik, according to him, was basically employee number one. I mean, he just happened to be looking at the exact time the hiring ad went out, and so he was there right on the ground floor. Worked on a conversion of the Sega arcade game High Impact Football to a home version. His work on that was very well received. That was done for Acclaim. They also had contracts with other companies. They entered into a contract with Sunsoft, did the game Arrow the Acrobat for them, kind of a me too, also ran um animal-based platform game. So he was doing good work and making good contacts at Iguana. Meanwhile, as that is going on, the Shafers suffer through the whole Gordo thing. It does end up getting released, but there's just a problem. In addition to all the problems around the fact that they couldn't get money while they were making the game, it gets released right after the Tramels have announced that they are discontinuing the Lynx.

Jeffrey: So why did we do all this effort for a console that is going away?

Alex: Yeah, so I mean, it does get released, we'll put it in the show notes, but it really doesn't sell all that well. And that's kind of the last straw for FM Waves, which somewhere in there renamed itself Tenth Planet. They don't really survive that, and they pretty soon after go out of business. At that point, the Shafers decide to go into business for themselves, alongside David Brevik's replacement at FM Waves as programmer Joe Jarrett, and they're going to do a lot of and they make their own little developer called Atomic Games. Just like with Iguana Software, this is another company that's going to try to break into this lucrative console contract development market that's going on at the time. So this is around 1992 at this point, maybe 1993, somewhere in there. They decide that Atomic Games, they're going to take the Gordo game, which kind of just vanished on the Lynx because the Lynx itself vanished, and they're going to port that to the Super NES. They end up hooking up with another one of these publishers that's trying to break in. As I said, they weren't all U.S. and Japan. This was a small company in Hong Kong called DTMC. Basically, what happened is DTMC got involved with Epyx and Licensed California Games with the intent of publishing versions on the Super NES and the Sega Genesis. Very soon after that, Epyx went bankrupt. We talk about that in our Epyx episode, and DTMC basically poaches some of the talent from the company as it's falling apart and sets up its own little U.S.-based publisher to continue to publish games on these 16-bit platforms. So it's a really minor player. It doesn't last very long. But one of the people that they poached was a gentleman that'll come back in our story more in the second episode than in this first one here, Matt Householder, producer at Epyx, to be the head of development. Householder signs the Atomic Games to create this Gordo port for them. So at this point, just to kind of get caught up on where everyone is. The Shafers have founded their own company with another person called Atomic Games, and they're working as these contract developers with a contract from this tiny Hong Kong publisher, DTMC, repped by Matt Householder in the United States, while David Brevik is in on the ground floor of Iguana Entertainment, which fast becomes one of the go-to contract developers for companies like Acclaim Entertainment and Sunsoft. Fate brought them together at FM Waves. Fate separated them again from FM Waves, and now Fate is about to bring them together again, because at this critical juncture, two things happen. First of all, DTMC, being this small publisher with not much in the way of IP and we're fast approaching the period of time, the crash that never was, where the market is starting to get oversaturated and it suddenly isn't so easy anymore to just grab a couple of licenses and release a couple of games and make money. DTMC, without much compelling product, collapses. The Gordo port for the Super NES never comes out as a result. The Shafers are suddenly without a publisher. At the same time, Jeff Spangenberg gets married, and his wife is from Texas. So Jeff decides that he is going to move Iguana Entertainment to Texas. David Brevik loves Northern California. He decides he's not going to go. Once again, everyone is in a lurch at the exact same time, and you know, they're still friendly. They still know each other. They're still in touch, and then when the whole DTMC thing fell through, the Shafers actually called David and were like, hey, maybe it's time now. Maybe we can do our own company together. Brevik was like, no, Iguana's great. Don't want to do it. But then, when very soon afterwards, his company uprooted itself to Texas, Dave got back in touch and said, yeah, it's time to do Project Condor, calling back to their plan to go into business together while they were all at FM Waves. So that is how, in 1993, we get the brand new developer Condor, founded by David Brevik and the Schaefer brothers, Eric and Max. There were some important differences between this time around and all the other times that they had tried to go into business together or work for other companies together. That was that for the first time, they had true, bona fide, legitimate contacts in the industry. David Brevik, being such a hotshot programmer at Iguana, had made lots of inroads and lots of contacts with publishers, big publishers, most notably Acclaim and Sunsoft, as previously stated. The Schaefer brothers knew Matt Householder, who had been at DTMC, and even though DTMC failed, that didn't mean that a veteran like Matt Householder, who'd already been in the business about a decade at this point, was going to suddenly leave the video game business. So they had contacts, and that was good, because those contacts meant that they would actually get some good game contracts right away. Matt Householder ended up at the 3DO company, where they were working on not only the 3DO hardware, but already the successor to the 3DO that they planned to put out in a few years, the M2, which was never fully released. Householder, impressed with the guys, and also everyone impressed with the job that Brevik did on Super High Impact Football, having already programmed a football game, gave them a contract for a football game on the new M2 hardware, and was very supportive of them. Unlike the uh Tramels, who would withhold money as much as possible, Householder actually did them a solid by trying to- if they schedule the milestone payments in such a way that if sometimes the people at Condor were like, uh, we're kind of in trouble, he could kind of get them a milestone payment to help them make ends meat. Like, he tried to get them their milestone payments in a manner that helped them kind of stay afloat. From their Acclaim contacts, they got a contract to do Game Boy and Game Gear ports of the NFL Quarterback Club game that Acclaim had put out. From Sunsoft, they were given a choice of projects, because David Siller, the producer there, was very impressed with Brevik, so they were given them a choice of a couple of different projects, and they chose to make Justice League Task Force for the Sega Genesis, which was basically a Street Fighter 2 clone. Not a very edifying project, perhaps, from a creative standpoint, but they figured that having the Justice League name attached to it, it had the potential to be very big because of the license. So these are some of the contracts they had in the early days. I think they had the Justice League one maybe first, and the others came a little bit later on, but regardless, this is the kind of stuff they're doing, because they're a development company. In the midst of doing all of this work for everybody else, Brevik is also ready to create his big magnum opus, the game that he has been thinking about for years and years and years, that being the game of Diablo. At this point, we should take a pause and talk a little bit about exactly what Diablo is.

Jeffrey: But Alex we know what it is. Its a game where I click around. Things die. I get loot. Things say, [Butcher voice] “Ah, fresh meat!” And then I get very scared and run away!

Alex: [Chuckles]

Yes. But of course, it's none of those things at this time. Because for one thing, it's not even in real time.

Jeffrey: Wait, what?

Alex: Yes, that's right. So what was David Brevik looking to do? First of all, he wanted to make some kind of RPG. He liked RPGs. But he was dismayed at the state of the RPG market in the early 1990s. Quite frankly, he had every reason to be, because it was bad.

Jeffrey: How bad was it?

Alex: Well, everything was falling apart. We've talked about this in some of our episodes, both with individual company histories and game histories and whatnot, but 1993 was a really dark period for RPGs. The reason for that is that despite how successful the RPG had been on computer platforms, it remained largely a niche product. A very successful niche. The most successful RPGs could sell 100, 200, 300,000 copies, which on computer platforms at the time was pretty good. But we have to remember that we're also in this period where computer gaming is going mainstream. And a lot of the genres that were very popular in the 1980s were being supplanted by a new wave of fast-paced action games with graphical sophistication and multimedia sophistication. Stuff like Wing Commander, and Doom, and Dune 2, and the real time strategy games, and even on the other side of the equation, things like Myst, which had this great multimedia presentation and a very simple interface. Like, the market was changing. Games were going to either really fast, visceral action-style games, or games that were maybe still contemplative, but were being made much simpler. Like Myst. When I say simple, I mean some of the puzzles could be head-scratchers, but I mean simple in terms of interface. In terms of being able to jump right in, figure out how to control things very quickly, and just go. This is how the market's changing in the early 90s. And so RPGs, which had been so popular in the 80s, were coming up against this new audience that maybe wasn't into what they were offering.

You know, everything was still at this point mostly either a derivative of Wizardry or Ultima. There were other big series besides those, but all of them still mostly traced their lineage back to those two games, with a few exceptions. Wizardry games were all about really intense character creation, and then tactical battles. So you spend a lot of time just setting up your character, setting up your party. Which, you know, for you and me, we find that interesting. We're D&D players going way back. But for this new public that's being attracted by games like Doom, the Nintendo generation growing up and embracing home computers, or personal computers, I should say. No, that's not what a lot of them are into anymore. The Ultima-style games, some of them could be a little bit crunchy too, but they were bloating in a different direction. And remember when I say all of this, I love these kind of games. So I'm not, like, criticizing Ultima and Wizardry and Might and Magic and all those for being the kind of games they are. I'm just putting them in the context of the new, huge tidal wave of PC game players that are coming into the market at this time, who are not looking at these kind of games nearly as fondly. The Ultima-style games have gotten very story-driven. There's all the dialogue trees and there's talking to all the people and there's all of this faux medieval language. And again, it's slow and plodding in the context of games like Wing Commander, Doom, Dune 2, that are starting to take over the market. Does that all kind of make sense?

Jeffrey: It is. People want to just come in, pick up the game, and start playing. They don't want to have to think about, why do I care about agility? What does that even mean? How does luck even play in this? I have to play the game for a little bit in order to understand what kind of play style I enjoy. Therefore, I know how to make my character so I can do that play style. I prefer to be a wizard. Okay, is that intelligence or is this this new arcana thing? Which one is it? I don't know. How does getting items change anything? I ran into the same problem when I used to play Might and Magic and World of Xeen.

Alex : Mhmm.

Jeffrey: I would sometimes make my own characters, and them and just get thoroughly obliterated by the first few things I encountered. I tried using the regular characters and that lasted a little bit longer. I just need to be able to get enough money to buy the gear to start exploring this place and figuring out what's going on.

Alex: Gotta do the chores, to get the money, to ride the dope-ass Disney train to get to the fun effing part of the game.

Jeffrey: Probably the best quoting thing I have ever come across.

Alex: Yeah, I basically just said that to force you put it into the show notes. I love it. [Both laugh] But it's true. I mean, you know, I say it, but it's true. That's this kind of thing. If you're a kid that grew up on Mario and Sonic and Contra and Mega Man on these video game platforms and are now moving on to the PC when you're a little older, a teenager or whatnot, just at the time when fast action games like Doom and Wolfenstein are starting to take over that platform, it's a new audience and that's just not their thing. So this is a problem because at the same time, the computers are getting more sophisticated. Moore's Law is at work and the technology is advancing. Even when your audience is a small audience, they still tend to expect the latest and the greatest. So now you have computers with more colors, with higher resolution, which means you need better artwork. People are demanding better stories, and so even to create RPGs in this time period, you need more sophisticated engines. You need more programmers. You need more artists. You need more designers. You just need bigger teams. I mean, this is happening across the entirety of the industry. It's not just unique to RPGs, but RPGs are sucked up in it as well. Because these have remained kind of niche genres, even though they were very successful in the context of the 1980s, it's not the activisions in the electronic arts of the world for the most part that are making these games. EA put out the Bard's Tale, but in general, the companies with the long-running series, it's Origin Systems with Ultima. It’s Sir-Tech Software with Wizardry. It's New World Computing with Might and Magic. Even the titan of role-playing games, TSR, with their Dungeons and Dragons license, is going through SSI, which is a small family-run company where Joel Billings' uncles and cousins are still like the major backers of the company. So these are very small companies for the most part that are suddenly put under great strain to expand to meet the new market, and a lot of them fall short. SSI, when they're trying to make a successor engine to their highly successful Goldbox engine, has a disaster with their Dark Sun game. Which basically causes their whole RPG thing to fall apart. Sir-Tech is a small company struggling to move on after Wizardry 7. Wizardry 8 doesn't come out for a very long time because they're too small to continue to like push the cutting edge. You have kind of the same problems with New World Computing, which kind of moves more and more into its strategy game series Heroes of Might and Magic. And then you have Ultima and Origin. They're the ones that buck the trend a little bit, but we covered this in our Ultima Trilogy of Trilogies kind of thing. They get bought by Electronic Arts, and they have the opposite problem. They get too much money thrown at them, and they end up with a disaster that is Ultima 8. So the old guard is falling away because it's hard for them to compete in this new market. The conventional wisdom is that RPGs are dead, because you have all of these long-term series that are hitting brick walls and just coming to a halt. What does David Brevik want to do? Like I said, he likes RPGs. He started with original D&D, and original D&D was not really about what we think of today as role-playing in a role-playing game setting. It was really about descend into the dungeon, kill the monsters, avoid or disarm the traps, get the treasure, improve your character's status, so you can go on to the next dungeon and do it all again. That's the kind of D&D David Brevik liked. That's the kind of D&D the Shafers liked. Then, of course, Brevik fell madly in love, with roguelikes, particularly Angband, madly in love. Which is again, you're descending into the dungeon, you're killing the enemies, you're getting the loot. So that's the core gameplay loop that he wanted for his game. He wanted a game that was like the roguelikes that he liked to play and was like the style of Dungeons and Dragons that he liked to play and would move role-playing games in a new direction that was not so stat heavy and was not so plot heavy and just got you to the pure visceral joy of killing and getting stronger. Now, they were also influenced by other games that they were playing at the time, because these were big gamers. I mean, as they were working on their games, they were also just playing games in the office non-stop. So there are a couple of other influences that have to be mentioned at this point. One of them is a kind of unlikely influence. NHL 94 from Electronic Arts.

Jeffrey: Why would people who want to play a RPG be playing a sports ball game?

Alex: [Chuckles]

Well, they were sports fans too, but yeah, the main influence from this, because obviously it's a very different kind of gameplay, the thing that impressed them about NHL 94 is that you got into the game right away. It was kind of what you talked about earlier as well, where with just a few button clicks, they were playing a game of hockey. No muss, no fuss. There are a lot of things you could theoretically customize before the start of a hockey game. Choosing your teams, your venue, your starting lineups, whatever else. But this game just got you in as fast as it possibly could, to where you're actually playing the game itself. This is something that really resonated with David Brevik, and something that, as we said, he found lacking in the RPGs of the time, the Wizardries and the Ultimas and the Mind and Magics of the world. The other game that truly captured their imagination during this time was the classic turn-based strategy game, XCOM.

Jeffrey: Ah, XCOM. I know it's more new incarnations, but the old ones were fun.

Alex: Yes, the classic Julian Gollop strategy game. There were a lot of facets to this. There were the strategic elements, like researching technologies and outfitting your troops and all of this stuff, that were, you know, a little more 4X-y. It's not a 4X game, but those elements were a little more 4X-y. Discovering and researching new technologies, etc. But then the meat of the game, the same as was the meat of all of Julian Gollop's games to come before this as well. was this tactical strategy game, where you had your little team that was going out to intercept aliens somewhere on planet Earth. You would be placed into a procedurally generated environment so that it was never the same, even when the terrain types or the biomes or whatnot or the mission types were the same. It was never quite the same battlefield twice. In this isometric viewpoint, very important, and went several rounds turn-based with the aliens. You had all your guys with their attributes and their abilities and their equipment, and you had the aliens, and it was entirely turn-based, moving around this isometric map, going after each other, you know, hopefully coming out on top against the aliens in each of these battles. They loved this game, and this is what really captured the imagination of the presentation for Brevik. So he was like, we'll take kind of this basic gameplay loop of the roguelikes of Angbond that I like. But we're not just going to make a roguelike with character-based graphics and, you know, all of this primitive stuff, because this is the 90s. That kind of stuff is not going to cut it anymore, and then we're going to take this beautiful presentation style in the interface initially of XCOM, and we're going to make this wonderful graphical roguelike game using this kind of isometric projection and some of the interface stuff from XCOM. So we'll have this turn-based strategy kind of game where you're moving around on this dungeon and enemies are coming, and then you have your attacks, your abilities, your treasures, and everything that you can use to fight these monsters, get loot from the monsters, and get more powerful, and do this whole feedback loop. So that's what Diablo was going to be. It was going to be a turn-based, very roguelike game. It was also going to have permadeath, which was a standard feature of rogue games. Permadeath as in all the time, no option to turn it off. I realize that you can also play Diablo games with permadeath, but it's an option. It's a hardcore mode. This was, there will be permadeath.

Jeffrey: No ifs, ands, or buts.

Alex: Exactly. This is kind of the game that they came up with, and it makes sense in the context of the time, because it is updating the roguelike. Like, there is a certain kind of thrill, and Jimmy Mayer in his Digital Antiquarium post on Diablo kind of makes this point. There is a very specific kind of thrill to roguelike games, because they're basically turn-based as well, of getting the satisfaction of using everything in your repertoire, in your inventory, in your bag of tricks to overcome the difficult enemies within a roguelike. It's about planning every encounter. It's about being like, okay, I have this limited use item. It'll work especially well against this kind of creature, so I should save it for that kind of creature. It's about plotting out your encounters, and then having a desperate fight, because roguelikes are hard. You often escape by the skin of your teeth, and they have permadeath, most roguelikes do, so if you die in the game, you die for real. There's no reloading a save. I'm sure there are technically ways you could save scum on a PC, but in theory, there's no way to reload. So that's where the tension of a roguelike comes from. There is a certain visceral thrill to that, but it's a different kind of thrill than a real-time game. But it's the thrill that Brevik grew up with. So he's wanting to adapt the RPG for the modern audience. To make something more thrilling, that allows you to get into the game right away, that allows you to not worry too much about overly complicated statistics, that you don't have to worry about a plot. You don't have to worry about lore. There is no lore. I realize Diablo has lore, but we'll get there. At this point, there is no lore. It's just you in the dungeon and the enemies, and the thrill you get is by acquiring this stuff and then coming up with the great strategies in this turn-based game to overcome your opponents. That's the kind of thrill he's looking at. That's what Diablo originally was, which mainly came from the inspirations of Angband, XCOM, and a little bit of NHL 94.

Jeffrey: So they take all this together, make a pretty characters that have turn-based combat in order to fight the butcher, [Alex Chuckles] and we get to the point where it's like me playing on the 386.

Alex: [Chuckles]

Yes. Uh for those that don't get that reference, which is not one we would expect you to get, so there are no bonus points, when Jeffrey first got Diablo, and he was the first one of us to get Diablo, he still had a 386 machine. One of the hallmarks of Diablo is that it was in very fancy, high resolution of 640 by 480, ooh, with 256 whopping colors. It was true VGA graphics. Let's just say that maybe the 386 wasn't the best platform for real-time VGA graphics, with lots of objects moving around.

Jeffrey: For some reason it had this thing on the box that said, must have a 486 with a math coprocessor or something. Eh, it's a 386. It's close enough. Three, four.

Alex: It's just one number off. [Laughs]

Jeffrey: That's right. It installed. It let me start it. It let me play it. Step, step, step. [Slowly] Hey, listen to me. Me, the Archbishop Lazarus. [Alex laughs at Jeffery’s slow voice] Let's just skip it at that point, then, and proceed on with our day.

Alex: The plot doesn't matter anyway. Yeah, I mean, it was turn-based. It was- It was meant to be visceral, and it was meant to be a reaction and a response to the direction RPGs had gone, but David Brevik, with his experience, could only take that so far. So they have this game. They're working on it in the background. Of course, they're doing their contract work, but this isn't under contract. This is something they're doing for them. They've hired other people. There are other people working on this game. Programmer Rick Seiss, another artist, Michio Okamura. Of course, eventually, Matt Ullman will make the amazing soundtrack for Diablo, and my God, Diablo has great music. Lots of guitar.

Jeffrey: [Tristram music in background]

The music has always been iconic. The-

Alex: Yeah.

Jeffrey: Especially back in the day that you could get music that good out of a PC was kind of astonishing. And it all flowed really well together to give this creepy vibe to everything. This downtrodden vibe.

Alex : It's just so atmospheric.

Jeffrey : Yeah, very atmospheric. You feel like, okay, yeah, you're in Tristram. You're in town. But you really feel through the music that this town's been destroyed. It's been beaten down. There's only a few people left. This is the town on its last legs.

Alex: Mhmmm.

Jeffrey: Here you are helping. You go down to the dungeon. Things start building up tension as things are quiet, [Music changes to Catacombs] creepy, atmospheric, and then the music ramps up. You have this atmospheric sound coming out as the skeletons come at you, as little demons with knives come at you.

Alex: Such a great sound design.

Jeffrey: It just ramps up your adrenaline and tension.

Alex: Exactly. And you know, it was still unusual at this time for a small developer like this to have a dedicated music person. I mean, obviously, music and video games was not a new thing by this point. [Music fades out] But for a developer like this to actually have a dedicated musician, which they had in Matt Uelmen, who was an actual employee, I think made that difference. But a bit of a tangent, because we're not really to the end of the story yet. But I'm just shouting out that, of course, there are other people besides Brevik and the Shafers working on this game. It's a team. But it's Brevik's vision, and to a lesser extent, the Shafers' vision. And they're the ones driving this. And this is the game that they're doing for them. Flash forward to CES in 1994. They are there to showcase their Justice League game on the Sega Genesis. But they also bring with them their pitch and some of their early work on this game that they're working on called Diablo, because this isn't under contract with anyone. This is their baby. They need to find a publisher. Kind of at the start of E3, they go around all the publisher's booths, and everyone turns them down. They get like a dozen rejections. It's all because that pitch document, you know, this is not a direct quote, but it essentially starts with Diablo is an RPG. And at that point, every single company executive's eyes glaze over.

Jeffrey: I can't think about that. That's too complicated, and they're not popular anymore.

Alex: They're dead. That's the thing. RPGs are dead, and they're not coming back.

Jeffrey: It's sort of like Final Fantasy VII. Do not mention it's an RPG.

Alex: Exactly. Exactly. They are dead, and they are not coming back. So they get all of these rejections. And so they return to the Sunsoft booth, where they're going to be demoing, because it's, you know, Sunsoft's commissioning the game. When you put it in the show notes, people will see that it comes out not from Sunsoft, but from Acclaim, but that's because Sunsoft gets into a little bit of trouble, and Acclaim ends up picking up the rights. But at this point, it's still Sunsoft. So they go back to the Sunsoft booth and are surprised to discover that theirs is not the only Justice League fighting game in existence. For while they were working on the Sega Genesis version, another company was working on the Super Nintendo version that they had no idea was even going to exist. That company was the recently renamed Blizzard Entertainment. So now we have a connection made. They meet each other, you know, they're in completely separate parts of the state. Condor is in Northern California, and Blizzard is in Irvine, is in Southern California, and believe me, California is a long state.

Jeffrey: Yes, it is.

Alex: That would be like being five states away in other parts of the country. [Chuckles] They discover each other here, and they get to talking, and they like each other. They're impressed with each other. They're impressed with each other’s work. The Condor folk end up telling the Blizzard folks about their Diablo thingamajigger. At this point, Blizzard, they've just been acquired by Davidson and Associates. Talk about all this history in our Blizzard episode. We won't cover it here. They're just in the process of finishing up and getting out Warcraft Orcs and Humans, the first game that they're publishing under their own label with the support of their new parent, Davidson and Associates. They're like, your game sounds amazing. It sounds awesome. We can't do anything with you right now. Because we are small and super busy. But once we get this whole Warcraft thing taken care of, maybe we can talk. That's exactly what happens. They publish Warcraft Orcs and Humans to wild acclaim, even more so than Dune II, which of course it's in many ways a copy of, not in every way, but in many ways, much more so even than Dune II. It kind of ignites this new craze for real-time strategy. It sells hundreds of thousands of copies. It makes Blizzard beaucoup money. It makes the parent company Davidson and Associates very happy. And now Davidson and Associates is like, this is great, now you need to go publish more games. So of course they're working on Warcraft II internally. They also really need to find other product that they can publish. They're still a small studio. So they're looking around a lot of companies and they remember their contact that they had with Condor. They're like, now, now is the time. Let's sign your Diablo game so that we can be the publisher. Condor is still an independent company at this point. We're not to the acquisition yet, but they're agreeing to publish Diablo. The Shafers, and Brevik, being still a little bit new to this whole thing and a little bit naive, make a deal that quite frankly is not a very good deal. No one was trying to cheat anybody. Everyone thought they were making a good deal. I mean, I think the Blizzard people were like, what's it going to take for us to be the publisher? And the Condor people were like, this is what it'll take. And the Blizzard people are like, okay, that's fine. But it ended up being woefully insufficient. It was $300,000 was the development contract. Obviously they'd get stuff on the back end too when the game sold, but in terms of what they were being paid to finish the game $300,000. To be paid in milestones, not to be paid all up front. As the game got bigger and bigger team and more had to be done was really not sufficient, which we'll get to in a bit, but they have a publisher now. Everybody's thrilled, but the Blizzard people do have some concerns. Actually, it's really, they have one concern. They're basically like, guys, we just published this little game called WarCraft. Perhaps you've heard of it and it's done really well. And you know why it's done really well guys.

Jeffrey: Uh, no?

Alex: Cause you see, unlike all of those stodgy military strategy games in the eighties from companies like SSI, this baby's in real time.

Jeffrey: Real time...

Alex: People like real time. People like fast, intense action. Our company has made its name on a game of fast, intense action.

Jeffrey: But my game is turn based.

Alex: So funny. You should mention that. We were thinking maybe your game could be real time and capture some of that same market of many hundreds of thousands of people that really liked Warcraft.

Jeffrey: How do I make it real time? That's not the XCOM way.

Alex: Exactly. David Brevik was incensed. He was like, no, the heart of this game is this turn-based roguelike experience with a patina of XCOM on top. That is not real time. We are not doing this. And the Blizzard people were like, okay, okay, okay. We get it. This is your baby. You're all on board with this. The whole team is on board with this, right? The whole team's vision is that this needs to be a turn-based game. Right, David?

Jeffrey: Um, no.

Alex: Cause you know, they didn't want to give orders. They didn't want to give order. They were more subtle than that. You know, you've got a great team of people up there.

Jeffrey: We do.

Alex: Maybe you should ask the team. Whether this game should be real time or turn-based. You know, whatever the team says, I mean, we trust them. That's going to be the way to go. We have faith in you and we have faith in your team, but why don't you just ask the team? Put it to a vote.

Jeffrey: [Calling into the background] Guys, we need a vote!

Alex: Yeah. I mean, this is pretty much how it went down according to David Brevik. And so they had a vote and basically him and I think his fellow programmer, Rick Seiss, were basically the only ones that wanted it turn-based. Everyone overwhelmingly wanted it in real time. So David Brevik grudgingly was like, okay, fine. I'll at least mock up how this might look in real time. And he's told this story in many places. He told it to Craddock. He's told it on YouTube. He's told it in all sorts of interviews. It was relatively straightforward to get a mock-up of real time working right away. Obviously they would have to do much more work to make it all balanced and flow well and everything else. But actually just making the combat real time was actually very simple for him to do immediately. The way the game worked is that every action had a timeframe associated with it. Moving takes so much time. Attacking takes so much time. Casting a spell takes so much time. But because they wanted the game to be accessible, everything from the beginning was based on a very simple click interface, very reminiscent of XCOM. You would click on an enemy to attack that enemy and then it would take some time. It would take some time to move. It would take some time to attack. All of these things would play out over the course of turns, but you were still doing very basic clicking to get it done. That same core Diablo click. To make it real time, all he had to do was change the value, the time duration for all of these different things to zero. Then by default, it would be in real time. It would all happen at once. As he puts it, he changed all of these values to zero. And then he had his little guy walk over and attack a skeleton. He clicks, the guy walks over, smashes the skeleton instantly dead. And he said, it's like a light bulb went off in his head. He was like, oh my goodness. Yes! This is the way, and this is going to be huge. At that point, even though Brevik had been resistant for so long, even Brevik at this point was on board. He was like, oh my gosh. Yes.

Jeffrey: All it took was a few zeros.

Alex: All it took was a few zeros. Obviously the final implementation was different from that. I mean, they redid everything to play nice in real time, but just as a mock-up to see what real time would feel like. He was able to do that, you know, in an afternoon or whatever.

Jeffrey: And convinced himself from begrudging.

Alex: Exactly. So that was the final piece of getting that core gameplay loop was the Blizzard folks saying, you know, maybe real time, maybe vote on it. So now we have that whole core loop, but of course, there's still much work to be done. There's still a lot that they have to accomplish and they need a lot of people working on it. During the course of all of this, as I said, they were still contract developing for other companies. One of their most important contracts was that M2 football game because it was proving to be a reliable source of payments. Right about at this time, they're informed that 3DO is getting out of the hardware business. There will be no M2 and there will be no football game.

Jeffrey: But I need the football and the sports ball to make the monies, like some sort of EA and their sports franchise constantly giving them money.

Alex: Now, on the one hand, it was a blessing because they actually needed all of those people that were tied up on that game to be working on Diablo. But on the other hand, it did mean that one of their major sources of income was gone and they were going to have to rely more on those Blizzard payments, which, as I stated, and it was no exaggeration, were truly insufficient for the task at hand. So by the end of 95, beginning of 96, they are having some trouble making ends meet. And it's at this point, the people at Blizzard are like, um why don't we just buy you? Or more accurately, why not our parent Davidson and associates just buy you? Why don't we make you a part of Blizzard? We believe this is going to be a big product, and yeah, we'd like to do that. So at the beginning of 96, I believe it is, they do sell the company, they sell Condor to Blizzard, which is when they are rebranded as a studio to Blizzard North.

We've talked about most of the things that would go into making the game very successful. The real-time gameplay, the simple interface, the ability to just dive right in after a couple of clicks straight into the game, and just the very slot machine-like loot system. Where every time you kill something, you could get some kind of treasure. And every time that some kind of treasure could be some kind of magical item. And every time it's possible that that magical item may be some kind of amazing upgrade for your character. It's not going to be true most of the time. But you see, psychologically, that doesn't matter. And uh Pat Wyatt, who was at Blizzard South, which it was often colloquially called, the main Irvine office, put it at the time, the thing that was really successful about this game, and the reason slot machines are so successful as well, is this positive reinforcement. Because very rarely does something bad happen. Obviously, when you gamble, you can lose all your money because you're just gambling, but like you never have a negative total in slots. I mean, you can go negative over time because you keep putting money in and you never get a payout. But on any individual spin, the worst that can happen is that nothing happens. It's the same with Diablo. The worst that can happen is that nothing happens. Then occasionally, you know, you'll get a little bit. You'll get a nice potion, you'll get 50 cents at the slot machine, you'll get a little bit of gold, and that's kind of okay, that's fine. But then, very rarely, you hit the jackpot. You get the big money payout from the slot machine. You get the Godly Breastplate of the Whale, or the God of Dammering, [Jeffrey chuckles] I remember some of these things, in a drop in Diablo. The thrill of that is so overwhelming a dopamine hit. That our brains get wired to want to get that hit again so badly that we will keep slogging through the nothing happening in the hopes of getting something else. As Pat Wyett put it, it's the same kind of reason why dogs beg at the table.

Jeffrey: Or cats.

Alex: Yeah, exactly. But most dogs that beg at the table, I mean, yes, some people feed them off their plate all the time, but the vast majority of dogs are not fed at the table most of the times that they beg. But every so often, maybe once a week, maybe even once a month, they get that delicious table scrap, and that is enough to keep them begging over and over and over again. Even if they go days and days, weeks and weeks, without getting anything again. That's how powerful that dopamine hit of hitting the jackpot is in mammals. It's at the heart of what makes the gameplay in Diablo so compelling. Because, yeah, you come out of the dungeon, you clear a floor of the dungeon, and haul up a bunch of magic items, and you end up selling 90% of those darn things. But there's that one item that gives you that little bit of improvement. Or if you're lucky and get like the God of Dammering, that one item that gives you this amazing new level of power. That keeps you coming back over and over again. And obviously there had been other games with loot before. That RPGs had loot. Zelda has loot. Adventure games can have loot. But Diablo was this visceral, real-time, easy-to-get-into, effortless, clicking on an enemy was no harder than pulling the lever on a slot machine. It was quick, visceral, easy, fun, and rewarding just often enough to make your brain want more. Obviously, you know, there were definitely a few games that had gotten some of this right before Diablo. We’re- We're never usually talking about the first thing to do something on They Create Worlds. But this is the one where it all just kind of clicked. Pun sort of intended. [Jeffrey chuckles] It created the concept of the loot drop. Obviously, there were enemies that had loot before this, but the concept of the loot drop.

Jeffrey: Loot tables, random runs, random die rolls. Dungeons and Dragons. It used to be, and still is to an extent. You could roll on treasure tables for what does the monster drop. Okay, why did the monster that was attacking me with claws not start hitting me with the wand of fireballs? We don't care. It's loot. It's mine now.

Alex: Yeah.

Jeffrey : Not my problem. It's my wand of fireballs.

Alex: Right. And of course, some of that was replicated in some of the earlier RPGs as well, but it wasn't this in-your-face. It wasn't this effortless. It wasn't this addictive. Click, click, click. And then you hear that little sound, because they would have distinctive sounds. You hear that little sound of the ring, or you hear that little sound of an amulet, and you're like,--

Jeffrey: Ooh, jackpot!

Alex : --because those tended to be rarer drops and tended to have more interesting stat gains. It's almost Pavlovian. It's like you immediately have to search out the source of that noise and get that ring if you're playing multiplayer before somebody else does. That just hadn't been done in this real-time way this effectively before. It completely changed how loot was viewed in video games. It completely changed what it meant to be rewarded in a video game. It basically invented the loot drop. Again, not the first time enemies ever dropped loot, but it essentially invented the loot drop as we think of it today across a wide variety of genres. And it cemented that core gameplay loop as something that was incredibly addictive and always kept players coming back for it. That's kind of the essence of Diablo, but a few other things to kind of shore up some other areas of it. First of all, lore.

Jeffrey: I thought you said there was no lore.

Alex: There wasn't. Not initially. The people of Blizzard North, David Revik and the Shafers, they were concerned about this visceral D&D roguelike style experience. They weren't concerned about story and whatnot. But they did realize, partially because they had promised it in their design document, partially because this is something that just RPGs have, they realized they did have to have some quests in the game. And again, they followed an Angband kind of structure for this because Angband was a roguelike with procedurally generated areas, but it would also have special quest areas that were fixed and were the same every time, which is also how quests are handled in Diablo, in the original Diablo. So they built these quest areas, they built these quests, but they were just kind of hodgepodge. They were like, oh, well, the game needs quests, so now let's make some quests, okay guys? And it was at this point that the guys down at the main offices down in Irvine stepped in, because they were like, we need something to stitch this all together. We need some story behind this. It doesn't have to be in your face, don't need to be reams of dialogue in the game, but we need to have a little more story than just descending to the last level. And that's when they turned the legendary Chris Metzen loose on the game.

Jeffrey: Legendary, you say?

Alex: Oh yeah, no. Chris Metzen. You know how uh Blizzard games like the Warcraft universe and Starcraft and all of that are known for having lots of lore and backstory and whatnot?

Jeffrey: Yep.

Alex: Chris Metzen is basically the reason for that. He was an artist that moved very much into developing lore. So much lore. He had done some lore development for Warcraft, but then had really, as they were making Warcraft 2, really dove into creating this expansive lore and backstory on these factions, and their history with each other and all of this stuff. Blizzard also asked him to create lore for Diablo, which he did. So he's the one that came up with a lot of the stuff, you know, obviously not Diablo himself. He took the quests that were made by the people of Blizzard North and kind of refined them and put some story behind them and created a lot of the lore around Soulstones and Sinwar and Tristram and all of this stuff were kind of done by Metzen. Then on top of that, Blizzard also had a brand new cinematics team, which was pretty unusual in this time period to have a team dedicated to only cinematics, especially the company of this size. They had a brand new cinematics team that had done some work on Warcraft 2 and needed more work to do. So they were like, hey, you guys take some of this Metzen lore stuff and just create some videos to go along with this game. So they did. Including that infamous final cinematic where you, the character, pry the Soulstone out of the prince's head and in order to contain it, shove it into your own skull. This was not a thing that anyone had come up with. The people at Blizzard North didn't come up with any story like that. Metzen hadn't come up with any story like that. This was just some cinematic guys that were being like, you know, it'd be cool if he took out the Soulstone and shoved it into his own head.

Jeffrey: Because why the heck not?

Alex: Exactly. That was the exact reason why. Like, there was no rhyme or reason around that moment, even though, of course, it's a moment that ends up touching off the entire story of the sequel. [Laughs]

Jeffrey: Yeah, just go up, grab a knife, rip some stones out, demon turns into a little kid, and then you just shove it into yourself and you become some sort of possessed demon man.

Alex: We traveled east.

Jeffrey: Always to the east.

Alex: Always to the east. [Chuckles] There was no overarching plan for this. Like, the story was one of the very last things that was developed, which I just think is so funny. I mean, it was just this random stuff. It's like, oh my gosh, the cinematics department made this thing. Now we have to figure out in the future what the heck that means that this happened at the end of the game. Because, you know, we were just, we just wanted to kill things and take their stuff. [Laughs]

Jeffrey: But we want to kill more things and take more stuff in the future.

Alex: So that's one element that came together kind of at the last minute. The other is this little thing called BattleNet.

Jeffrey: BattleNet. I remember BattleNet. I got onto the net and I did some battles. It had chat rooms and games. It was fun.

Alex: From the very beginning, Diablo had been pitched as a multiplayer game. But Brevik and the Shafers and the rest of the team had never really thought through what that actually meant. It's just, this is another thing that would be cool. We'll have the game be a multiplayer. They had never really given any actual thought. Into what that would look like. But at the same time, there were exciting new developments happening at the main Blizzard office, Blizzard South down in Irvine. We have to remember that at this time, multiplayer, for the most part, meant one of three things in the PC world. You and another friend used a null modem cable to directly interface your two machines together in the same physical space.

Jeffrey: Which involved creating something that looked akin to a Star Destroyer.

Alex: Lots of adapters. All just so you could twist two prongs in the middle. You could dial directly into your friend's computer using a modem.

Jeffrey: Don't get up and get a sandwich.

Alex: Yeah. And again, the two of you could play a game together. Jeff and I did that occasionally.

Jeffrey: Oh, we did both.

Alex: I know, I know. I know the big long cable. Or you could set up a local area network, in which case a bunch of computers that were in somewhat physical proximity to each other could all be hooked up together and you could have a game involving more than two people.

Jeffrey: Bonus points if you do it in a workplace office and then do secret intercom spying for one side.

Alex: [Chuckles] Indeed. The internet was a thing by this time, but there really wasn't a way to use the TCP IP protocol to do internet gaming. There were a lot of complex things that had to be figured out with that. The major publishers, the game creators themselves, were not doing it. But there were a small number of other companies and developers that were filling that void and creating some of the first internet protocols to be able to play games multiplayer over the internet.

One of these early ones was a little service called Kali, which basically was an IPX emulator. So LAN gaming was done through the IPX protocol, and Kali emulated IPX over a TCP IP internet connection so that you could basically have a LAN party involving computers all over the place. It wasn't the only thing of its type, but it was one of the most popular. Most of these, including Kali, had started out as programs to play Doom over the internet because Doom Deathmatch was so insanely popular. But Kali was one of the first ones that was expanding outside of that, and allowing this for other games as well, including Warcraft 2, the latest real-time strategy hit from Blizzard. The programmer at Blizzard by the name of Mike O'Brien saw this and was like, this is the wave of the future. We shouldn't cede this capability to a third party. We should have this capability ourselves for our own games. And furthermore, while we could do what companies like Kali and others do and charge for the use of our program, at some point in the future, just because of the way technology goes, this is the truly visionary thing that O'Brien came up with, because of the way technology improves and things come down in price and things get more efficient, it's inevitable that eventually this kind of internet matchmaking service can be done free of charge. Let's just skip ahead to that right now. Let's not put out a paid service just so that two years later someone can come along and undercut us with a free service. Let's have a free service right now! That's what truly makes Battle.net revolutionary, because yeah, they weren't the first to do online matchmaking or IPX emulation over TCP IP, but they made it free from the get-go. And that was all Mike O'Brien. So Mike O'Brien and another programmer, Jeff Strain, were kind of working on getting this whole Battle.net matchmaking thing together. And it really was mostly a matchmaking service at this point. All of the client data would still be stored locally. It would just be a way for you to share your client data with another person, but your client data would still be on your own computer. That's perhaps not the best idea. It kept it simple.

Jeffrey: So many client hacks.

Alex: [Chuckles] So obviously they needed a game to use this with. Warcraft 2 was already out. Obviously they would eventually make a Battle.net edition, but they didn't want to debut their Battle.net service with an old game as a retrofit. So Warcraft 2 was out. They were working on their orcs and space game, Starcraft, but it was looking like Starcraft might not be out until, you know, not until like Christmas 1996. It's a long ways off. Yes, you heard that. I said 96.

Jeffrey: It's going to be out Blizzard soon.

Alex: [Laughs] TM. So Starcraft was too far out. So they were like, well, our guys up at this Blizzard North are working on Diablo. Let's implement Battle.net and Diablo, and that'll be the launch. So that's what they did. They incorporated it kind of at the last minute. I mean, in game development terms, it was a few months before, but very last minute in game development terms, which did cause Diablo to be somewhat delayed. But it was absolutely the right choice because as problematic as it could be, especially if you were trying to do it with strangers, if you were just going around with your friends, it allowed a great way for you and a group of your friends to experience all of this positive feedback, loot experience, kill and loot experience together. So they got that together, and then there was one final thing that was kind of really important. We've gone through most of the game elements now. Diablo was looking like it was probably going to be a pretty decent hit. They were projecting that it would probably sell 100,000 units pretty soon after launch, which again, even though some games are starting to sell in the millions on PC, that was still considered a pretty good haul. But then there was one final intervention, because it happened that this was the exact moment as well that Microsoft was trying to redefine the relationship that Windows had with games. Windows 95 was launching, of course, with DirectX.

Jeffrey: Why kids, why would you care about DirectX? You see there’s this thing called drivers. And it lets you, the user, use these physical things like, oh I don’t know, keybords, mice, joysticks, sound cards, video cards, and interface with an operating system and do so efficiently. What DirectX did is said, hello, Mr. Game Developer, I will handle all of the minutiae and trouble of how do you talk to 50 different video cards and 20 different sound cards and all the rest of it. I will provide the APIs to make it easy for you to take that demon there, put it into that box there, and then roll the whole thing into that vat of acid there!

Alex: Indeed. This was going to take a lot of convincing, however, because Windows had just been an absolute drag on games, and there wasn't a game in the early to mid-90s that didn't solve the Windows problem by having you immediately exit Windows and boot up the game in DOS. Windows 3.11, 3.1, 3.11, 3.0, 2.0, any of them that you can name, were not game environments.

Jeffrey: That’s why we all called them DOS games.

Alex: Yes, and Microsoft was desperate to leave DOS behind, but just because they would say that this DirectX thing was going to be amazing and that you could make games in Windows 95 didn't mean that developers were automatically going to believe them and start migrating their games over to the Windows environment. They did not want games exiting out of Windows 95 the same way that games had been exiting out of 3.11 and all of the Windows versions before it. As part of their marketing drive, Microsoft went around to some of the most prominent game developers and asked them to create versions of their games or demos of their games that they could put on a CD that would highlight games that were being created using DirectX and then be made available to the public. So, of course, Blizzard was an up-and-coming developer with the success of Warcraft and Warcraft 2. So, Microsoft came knocking and Blizzard made a deal to put a demo of Diablo on one of these DirectX demo discs that Microsoft was just going to send out to people. Just a couple of million of them. Like, this was a marketing expense. So, people didn't have to pay for this thing, it's just Microsoft was going to send them out. So, they did a little demo of Diablo and this got anticipation up to a fever pitch because a bunch of people got to play this little demo before the game was released. It didn't matter whether it was Windows 95 or not. I mean, it was, but the point was not so much that it was Windows 95, it was like, oh my gosh, this game looks like it's going to be really cool. So, they started getting all sorts of press and coverage as a result of that. By the time the game was ready to release, there was incredible anticipation. The original projections were that it was going to sell about 100,000 copies.

Jeffrey: After the demo...

Alex: They were like, okay, maybe this will sell 500,000 copies. Like, total. After they opened it for pre-orders, they had already reached 450,000 units in pre-orders by December 17th, 1996.

Jeffrey: They might have a few that they have to make more of.

Alex: They missed their initial release date. They wanted to release at Christmas. They couldn't do it. There was still too much last-minute stuff to do and Blizzard did what Blizzard used to do in these situations, and they delayed the game. Even though they knew they were going to miss out on the lucrative Christmas season, they delayed the game. We're not exactly sure when the first units hit store shelves. Some sources claim that in very late 1996, post-Christmas, a few copies were out in the world. Other sources claim it wasn't until January 1997 that the first copies came out. It kind of straddles 96 and 97. When it releases, it is an absolute phenomenon. Some of the sales from various sources, and quite frankly, some of these are from Blizzard's own press releases, 500,000 units by April. It was released in January. 750,000 units by June. One million units by late November. Less than a year.

Jeffrey: Then we have this whole new Christmas season to have all the new sales.

Alex: Yeah. I mean, it sold incredibly because it had the core gameplay loop that was so appealing, and then it had all of that buzz that was generated by that Windows 95 demo and the subsequent press coverage. I think David Brevik kind of puts it best in one of the quotes in Craddock's book. I mean, he says, ‘Diablo broke so many traditions for PC games at that time. It was for Windows 95. It was DirectX. It was multiplayer over the internet with a free service. It was an action RPG. It had state-of-the-art 256-color graphics. It ran quickly.’

[Alex as an aside] When you weren't playing it on a 386.

‘It was way, way beyond other games. It broke ground as a genre.’ And it's so true. It was one of the first really big Windows 95 games. It had top resolution and top color depth for games of its type at the time. Looks primitive today, but not at the time. It had the multiplayer component, and it had that core gameplay loop of go in the dungeon, click on the monsters, kill the monsters, click on the loot, find the shinies, improve your stats to go deeper in the dungeon, to click on the monsters, to kill the monsters, to click on the treasure, to acquire the loot, on and on. And it was just a phenomenon. But of course, even that phenomenon would pale in comparison to the far more refined sequel. We'll end our story there for now, and then in our next episode, turn our attention to the all-time classic, Diablo II.

Jeffrey: Where we get to click more buttons, and have more loot, and have more voice acting and not run it on a 486.

Alex: Indeed.

Jeffrey : Use your town portal to return home and stay a while, as we will see you next time on They Create Worlds and Diablo II.

Check out our show notes at podcast.theycreateworlds.com, where we have links to some of the things that we discuss in this and other episodes. You can check out Alex's video game history blog at videogamehistorian.wordpress.com. Alex's book, They Create Worlds, the story of the people and that shaped the video game industry, Volume 1, can now be ordered through CRC Press and at major online retailers. Email us at feedback at theycreateworlds.com. Please consider supporting us on Patreon at patreon.com/theycreateworlds. Please help get the word out by leaving a review on your favorite podcasting service. We now have the podcast available on YouTube. Intro music is Airplane Mode by Josh Woodward, found at joshwoodward.com/song/airplanemode, used under a Creative Commons attribution license. Outro music is Bacterial Love by Roland Music, found at freemusicarchive.org, used under a Creative Commons attribution license.