TCW 220 - Diablo 2

Jeffrey: This is They Create Worlds, Episode 220, Diablo 2.

[Intro Music - Airplane Mode]

Welcome to They Create Worlds, I'm Jeffrey and I'm joined by my co-host Alex.

Alex: Hello.

Jeffrey: Well Alex, I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure that I'm very, very tired from all of that livestreaming that we did.

Alex : Yes, the livestreaming that totally happened before we recorded this episode, seeing as this is the October 15th episode and we did our big, gigantic livestream on Saturday, October the 12th.

Jeffrey: That's right.

Alex: Where I am told that we spent the entire day doing a gigantic three-episode extravaganza on D&D. It was great, I know it was. I can't say anything specific about what was great, but I particularly liked that one thing and then that other thing. That was cool too. Yeah. Hooray things.

Jeffrey: Ha ha ha ha ha. Never mind the fact that we are recording this on September 27th.

Alex: Details, details, that's right. So obviously we won't have anything more to say in this episode on the livestream. We could be clever people and sneak it in at the last second, but seeing as this episode comes out three days after said livestream, that's asking a bit much. We'll have more thoughts, retrospectives, introspections on the livestream in our next episode, but we do at this time want to thank everybody who did attend and presumably had a good time.

Jeffrey: Also, I have been whaling away and think I finally figured out, with the help of a friend, transcripts. I know there's a few people who have asked for them, and I'm slowly working on figuring out and refining the process. It still takes a lot of editing on my part because AI is far from perfect, but at least I have a way to streamline it so it's not so insane anymore.

Alex: But my AI told me it's perfect in every way.

Jeffrey: It lies. Lies and heresy.

Alex: [Laughs]

That's right. So, uh, we're starting to play around with that. I think we're very close to being able to have a transcript of a current episode not too long after that episode comes out. It'll probably be a fair bit longer before we start working on the backlog. The backlog is huge, not quite as straightforward as uploading all the backlog to YouTube, and even that took a long time, considering how straightforward it was. So, gonna have to wait on those back episodes for a bit. But we are gonna try to get transcriptions going forward, at least.

Jeffrey: But that's not what people are here for today. They are here for the glory, the horror, the phenomenon that is Diablo II, as we follow Alex, the dark historian, as he tells us his tales of horror.

Alex: We looked into the past, always to the past.

Jeffrey: That's right. So much looking into the past that it constantly changes. And we don't know what is real and not real anymore.

Alex: Indeed. Of course, our last episode, we took a look at the seminal classic game Diablo, which redefined the RPG and created the modern concept of the loot drop and that kind of gameplay cycle of kill the things to get the loot, to improve the character, to kill things better, to get better loot, to make the character even stronger, and so on and so forth. But, while Diablo really established all of that, you can't really talk about how this all went mainstream without also including Diablo II, because a lot of what Diablo started, Diablo II really perfected. So we want to take a moment now, or, you know, a million moments, as we tend to do on this show, and just take a look at Diablo II, kind of the course of Blizzard North, and then as a little coda, even talk a little bit about how the same people that gave us Diablo and Diablo II went on and tried to give us the looter shooter, too, but didn't quite all come together for them.

Jeffrey: Now, I don't know about you, but I have a long history with Diablo II.

Alex: Oh, God.

Jeffrey: I have my own little story, just like Diablo I. Instead of running it on a 386 or a 486, I was really excited to get into the private beta that Blizzard did.

Alex: Oh, wow. I'd forgotten that. I mean, this was when I was in Germany, and we weren't in as close a contact all the time, so I'm not surprised I don't remember that, but I did not realize that.

Jeffrey: Yeah. Now, imagine trying to download the demo that they did for Diablo II over a 56.6 kilobaud modem.

Alex: [Chuckles] Hmmm...

Jeffrey: This was slow. Very slow. And much like our great transfers of old, Alex, when it got near the end--

Alex: Oh God.

Jeffrey: --and it failed, it decided that resetting was a fun thing to do.

Alex: That's a terrible idea of a thing to do, modem. [Chuckles]

Jeffrey: And thus, the download was completely lost.

Alex: Oh, gosh.

Jeffrey: So, we gave our father credentials and where to download things from, and he did so from some sort of work internet connection that�

Alex: Ah!

Jeffrey: --was a wee bit faster and a wee bit more stable.

Alex: Hooray!

Jeffrey: So, I have a lot of experience with playing Diablo II. It was really crazy to see how they changed things from Diablo I into Diablo II, not to mention how they improved and redefined multiplayer and how Battle.net worked.

Alex: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I have a long and deep experience with it as well. You know, as I mentioned earlier, it came out when I was in Germany. Of course, when I lived in Germany, most of the time I had to wait a fair amount of time when something new and shiny came out before I could get a hold of it because games were not generally released at the same time in the United States and Europe. And while I could theoretically order via e-commerce, which was kind of, sort of, in existence at the time, even that, the shipping in those days, would take weeks and weeks. So, I never got anything right when it came out for those couple of years. Except that the good folks at Blizzard decided that Diablo II would have a simultaneous worldwide release. Something that was incredibly uncommon at the time. That's one I actually was able to get. I still bought it on the American military base, but because of treaties and whatnot, even the American military base couldn't normally get stuff at the same time it released in the United States because they didn't want there to be a black market that developed and this, that, and the other thing. The Power Zone, which was the military's version of, like, a Best Buy, actually had Diablo II on release day, since it was a worldwide release and they weren't subject to that, so, a friend of mine and I got it right away and I slept over at his place and we got through the entire game in, I think, technically two sittings. I think we took a break for breakfast, but we stayed up all night and just plowed through that thing, the two of us together, all four acts, on normal difficulty, of course. And that's definitely a fond gaming memory. And, you know, played it loads since my roommate in my freshman year of college, which my freshman year was 2000, 2001, Diablo came out in the summer, my roommate did not take that CD out of his computer for almost the entire academic year.

Jeffrey: So, yes, the game was addictive.

Alex: Oh, God, yes.

Jeffrey: So, now we have to delve into why it was so addictive.

Alex: Indeed. Though, before we do, we do have to do a little bit of housekeeping. Not for the podcast, but for the original Diablo. Because, of course, there was an expansion to the original Diablo.

Jeffrey: Hellfire!

Alex: That Hellfire thing. Yeah.

Jeffrey: Hello, Sierra. Why did you provide an expansion for a Blizzard game? Last I checked, Sierra didn't own Blizzard.

Alex: Ah, but you know who did own Blizzard by the time that that expansion was happening? A little company called CUC International, an e-commerce company that believed that there was going to be a big, big future in online gaming, and therefore decided to buy the largest, most successful educational software company in the business, Davidson & Associates, which was, as we will recall from last time, the parent of Blizzard. And the largest PC gaming company in the business, which was Sierra Online. So, at this point, the same parent company actually did own both Blizzard and Sierra.

Jeffrey: So that's how you get the licensing. Hmmm...

Alex: Well, I mean, it was licensing in a way, but it wasn't really licensing, and it was very kind of skeezy from the perspective of the people at Blizzard and Blizzard North. Diablo was Blizzard North's baby, from conception to launch. Blizzard Entertainment down in Irvine, which the Blizzard North people like to call Blizzard South, they helped out a lot as well, as we talked about in the last episode, they threw several people on it to help get it finished. But it was a Blizzard baby, and it was a complete game that they were done with. They wanted to move on to other things. They were done with Diablo. The parent company, however, saw how ridiculously successful the game was, and insisted that there be an expansion. The Blizzard North people could refuse to do an expansion, but they couldn't tell their parent company, no one can do an expansion. I mean, they could try, but it wasn't going to be successful. So Blizzard was pretty nonplussed by all of this, because Blizzard was known in those days, and was very proud in those days, for having a certain standard of polish and sophistication and greatness, quite frankly. in their games. So much so that just a couple of years later, when they were trying to make an adventure game based on the Warcraft universe, even though the game was 100% done and completely playable, as we know because it finally leaked online a few years ago, or at least 90% done, they canned the whole thing because Curse of Monkey Island came out and they decided that they couldn't live up to the animation standard that was created by that adventure game, so they shelved their own. So, I mean, they took pride in having product that was refined and excellent and reasonably glitch-free and everything else. So the idea of another company, even within the same publisher, taking that on was not very well appreciated, but there wasn't really anything they could do about it.

Jeffrey: You have to keep in mind that just the fact that Blizzard was willing to shelve and cancel a game that close to completion, because it doesn't match their standards. I don't know of a company today that would do that.

Alex: Yeah.

Jeffrey: They didn't do it just the one time. They did it two to three times, to my knowledge. They did it to StarCraft Ghost, and I want to say one other, but it's not coming to mind right now.

Alex: Yeah, I mean, plenty of publishers cancel games, but canceling games that are basically finished, yeah, not so much a thing. So we're not really going to spend much time on the expansion because it's really not part of our story. It's never been something that the Blizzard folks have considered to be a part of their game. The developer that was given the job of creating it, Synergistic Software, which was a Sierra studio, they didn't want to interfere with what the original game had going on either, and so they deliberately made their parts of it like a complete side story that took place in completely different parts of the little town of Tristam map. It wasn't part of the delve down 16 levels. There were these two separate entrances to these two new areas of four levels each. So it's always been this kind of weird add-on thing, and the other thing about it is that you could not play it over Battle.net. This was because even though Blizzard did not have the capability to stop a sequel from being done, they held all the cards when it came to Battle.net. They were the ones that knew how it worked and how games connected to it, and they refused to allow the game to play on Battle.net at all because they did not want a product of unknown quality, just because they wouldn't be working on it, to be available on their flagship online service that they're starting to build because they wouldn't want something like that if it ended up being awful to be one of the first things that somebody new saw getting onto Battle.net and then just turn them off to the entire thing. So they refused to allow it on Battle.net. And in fact, they refused to let it be multiplayer at all, but the Synergistic folks still managed to set up a LAN play, IPX protocol, local area network play. It did have a multiplayer mode, which also made the Blizzard people kind of furious, but it was not available on Battle.net. It was a complete side story, and nobody at Blizzard considers that to be kind of an official part of the Diablo universe or Diablo lore or Diablo anything. Yeah, that's really all we want to say about the expansion. I did want to briefly explain, yes, there was an expansion. Yes, it was kind of weird, here’s why.

Jeffrey: I actually own the Hellfire expansion--

Alex: Same here.

Jeffrey: --and it has that entertaining way Sierra likes to install games.

Alex: [Chuckles] Yeah.

Jeffrey: It very noticeably does not have that polish, and I was always a little confused at the time, especially when I saw the Sierra logo show up and was like, wait, this is a Blizzard game. What is going on here?

Alex: [Chuckles] Yeah. If the Blizzard North people were not working on a Diablo expansion, what were they working on? The logical answer would be Diablo 2, but initially, they did not want to do that at all, or at least not do it right away. They had just spent, you know, a couple of years or more, you know, slaving away on this game, and they were ready for a complete change. So Dave Brevik, one of the co-founders of the studio, proposed to Blizzard Entertainment that they make a football game. That they start a sports division for Blizzard and make a football game. We may recall from our first episode that Brevik had a lot of experience doing football games. He had ported Super High Impact Football back in the day for Acclaim, and then had also, the company had done a couple of portable versions of NFL Quarterback Club. There was a real love for that kind of game, at least for David Brevik, too, and he had kind of had this dream of creating a game that had some role-playing elements in it, where you could take a player, you know, you create a player and you kind of follow him through as he becomes a superstar. But he wanted it to be a realistic game. He didn't want it to just be like an NBA Jam, NFL Blitz kind of game. He wanted it to be a solid simulation. The Blizzard Entertainment folks listened to that. They nodded politely, and they said, Brevik do Diablo sequel. If Blizzard say Brevik do Diablo sequel, Brevik do Diablo sequel.

Jeffrey: Bonus point if you get that reference.

Alex: Pretty obscure one, though we have made it before on the show.

Jeffrey: You know, I really need to come up with a way people can turn in those bonus points if they can--

Alex: Indeed.

Jeffrey: --cite all the questions and what they're referenced to.

Alex: Oh, God. We don't even know what all those are. They can just make it up and we'd have to believe them. [Laughs]

Jeffrey: Well, you see, the requirement would be that they have to cite episode and timestamp.

Alex: Yes, that would be important.

Jeffrey: But really, I think it's a missed opportunity here because the thought popped into my head of an Orcs and Humans football game where they're fighting back and forth would be hilarious.

Alex: I mean, there's a game a little bit like that. What, Blood Bowl is it called? Yeah, Blood Bowl's a little like that. [Laughs] Not a Blizzard game, obviously, but board game originally by Games Workshop, and there have been video game versions of it as well. Don't worry, Jeff, that demographic has been served.

Jeffrey: Okay.

Alex: Just not by the good folks at Blizzard North.

Jeffrey: So pretty much Blizzard said, Go Brevik, make us Diablo 2. Or else!

Alex: Exactly. I mean, Diablo 1 was a massive hit. You know, it was a multi-million seller at a time when PC games were still in general not that. I mean, it was changing slowly, but that was still an absolutely massive hit at that time, so there's no doubt what people wanted. What do you do when you make a sequel to Diablo? Well, you do the same thing that you usually do when you make a sequel to anything. In the video game industry, when it comes to new IP like that, the first game kind of establishes, kind of what's going on with the type of game you're making, and then the second one tends to just be that with more, sometimes being stuff, all the great ideas you had when you were making the first game that you couldn't fit in. Other times, it's just, we don't know, but we just know it needs to be bigger. So, you know, in a nutshell, that's what Diablo 2 is. It is Diablo, except bigger. However, there are some caveats to that, because they really didn't want it to be just a bigger dungeon. Diablo, the original, is a very claustrophobic game and a very tense game. You're descending through these 16 levels of dungeon. Every four levels, there's kind of a change in scenery that represents a big difficulty spike, and then finally you get down to the bottom and defeat Diablo and win the game. Then Blizzard South was like, and then wouldn't it be cool if we had this cinematic where the guy shoves the uh Soulstone right into his forehead. You know, it's claustrophobic. It's very tactical in some ways. It's kind of focused on choke points and kind of maneuvering enemies to the part of the level where they can only come at you one or two at a time. Light plays a role in the first game that it really never does again, in that you actually have a light radius around your character and you have gear that can expand that light radius. You know, kind of fear of, what's just beyond your view is a big part of what drives the tension of the game, and the idea is to try to get as much advance warning as you can about what's coming, know the map well enough to funnel everything through a choke point, and then try to take things on one or two at a time as much as you can. That's kind of what Diablo is.

Just making that bigger wouldn't necessarily have much of an impact. If you made the dungeon levels too big, much bigger, the gameplay would be very different, and if it's just more bigger dungeon levels, then it's very repetitive. They wanted to make it bigger, but they didn't just want to do a bigger dungeon. However, at this time, and we talked about this in the last episode, the Blizzard North people were always big, big gamers themselves. As we talked about, most of the features that defined Diablo came from the games that they were really enjoying at the time. Obviously, the Rogue-lite, like Angbond for the basic core gameplay, but then also XCOM for the isometric presentation, and even NHL 94, of all things, for the ease of getting into the game and just starting playing and just starting killing. At this time, when they were trying to think about what to do for Diablo's sequel, everyone had gotten really into MMOs.

Jeffrey: MMOs were pretty popular back then. You had EverQuest, you had all the various MUDs and MUCKs, and MU* that you had going on. If you had just a modem connection and you wanted to play something MMO-y, but didn't have the capability of doing something graphical.

Alex: Yeah, but we really are talking about graphical here, and we're particularly talking about Ultima Online and especially EverQuest, which a lot of people in the office went mad for at Blizzard North. So when it came time to do Diablo 2, they decided what they really wanted to do was take that basic gameplay loop, which they didn't want to mess with too seriously, from the original Diablo, then put it in more of an MMO-style world, by which I mean vast overworld spaces with dungeons and other kind of underground or indoor locations scattered about.

Jeffrey: So trying to really open up the world, make it feel like you're walking through a true world, exploring the countryside, exploring caves, exploring towns and keeps and dungeons, and who knows what else.

Alex: At the same time, killing a ton of monsters.

Jeffrey: You would really think that trade would go to a standstill with the amount of monsters you kill.

Alex: Indeed. This changes the nature of the game because they still have some dungeon locations, but the dungeon locations, for the most part, are fairly small, and I say for the most part. I know there are some big ones, like the Sanctum in Act 2 that was inspired by The Ways in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time, of all things. That place was freaking huge. You know, most of those indoor areas were kind of smaller areas, and a lot of the gameplay was focused in these outdoor areas, which meant that this whole idea of choke points wasn't really going to be a thing anymore. Yes, there were still a few places where you could wrangle some chokepoints here and there, but this one was not going to be about kind of scouting, retreating, scouting, retreating, which is what a lot of Diablo is. This one is really going to be about non-stop murder and mayhem. Throwing tons of monsters at you in these overworld settings, in these dungeon settings, and having you wade through them all. Clicky, clicky, killy, killy, looty, looty. The other thing that they really wanted to improve upon, is the way they did character classes in the first game. The first game does have three character classes. There's a warrior who focuses on physical ability. It was kind of a tank. Then there's the rogue that is ranged, focuses on dex, and then there's the sorcerer that is all magic. Even though you kind of had these basic standards for which ones did which things, there was nothing in the game stopping you from trying to run a warrior who uses magic. They're not well disposed to doing it, but you can try.

Jeffrey: And you can do it.

Alex: Yeah, let me tell you, even if you're not trying to do spells on the whole with warrior, mana shield. You still use mana shield. Doesn't matter. Makes things so much easier.

Jeffrey: Mana shield and maybe heal.

Alex: Well, yeah. This could create a bit of a problem, though, because even though you could theoretically try to do it, unless you really knew what you were doing in the game, you weren't going to be particularly successful trying to play a class against type. But because the game didn't provide any structure for you in how you improved your characters, it was quite possible, and indeed did happen in practice, as the Blizzard North people found, that people would play against type and then get very frustrated at this dumb game. In addition to kind of just expanding and making everything bigger, they also wanted to have better defined classes with clearly defined roles and a clearly defined ability set so that it wasn't just this kind of pell-mell, try-to-use-any-spell-you-find, try-to-use-any-weapon-you-find, try-to-use-any-armor-you-find, you know, at your own peril, with just a few exceptions that were class-limited. Once again, they turned to games that they were playing at the time to provide some structure to this, as they always do. In this case, it was the 4X space classic Master of Orion that was the main inspiration.

Jeffrey: Really? Master of Orion?

Alex: Yes.

Jeffrey: One or two?

Alex: One. What we're particularly looking at here, though, is the tech tree. That great invention of the game civilization that has spread to other strategy games. They loved the progression system of the tech tree and how you had this clearly defined path or a set of branching paths towards making your empire more powerful through greater technological might. So they migrated the tech tree from the strategy realm and into the RPG realm with the skill tree, which was the same basic idea that you got skill points as you leveled up and then you had abilities you can put them in and then other abilities would branch off from those abilities and you had this complex tree of ways to improve your character.

Jeffrey: Just think of how many times you play a modern game and that basic thing is there. If a game has RPG mechanics and it does not have a skill tree, who's playing that?

Alex: [Chuckles] It is one of the more common forms.

Jeffrey: All the roguelites, where they do progression. Every time you die, you get all these points and you try to upgrade your castle or upgrade your character or whatever. It's just earn skill points so that you can upgrade your character, upgrade your next run, and proceed from there.

Alex: Well, yeah. And it's not just RPGs. It's also how third-person action games, you know, everything from Horizon to Spider-Man to the Batman Arkham games, they all use skill trees as well. They weren't all necessarily inspired by Diablo II. Some of them probably also took inspiration from tech trees and other trees that already existed out there in the world. But yeah, Diablo II was one of the first of these RPGs to really go that route, to have a tree, to have a structure like that to the way that you developed your skills, and yeah, they took it from Master of Orion, which of course took it from Civilization. So we've got this strategy game element moving over into the RPG space. Yeah, big outdoor areas, better-defined characters using a skill tree, and just more of everything. But they still wanted to keep it simple. They wanted to make sure that it was still a game of very simple clicks. The other thing, of course, that they wanted to make sure they did, and which again was taken from the emerging MMO genre, is that they implemented a client-server architecture.

Jeffrey: Yay!

Alex: Yeah, for their multiplayer. Because Diablo multiplayer was a mess.

Jeffrey: So many hacks.

Alex: Yeah, so many hacks. And you know, it also wasn't helped by kind of the unique way, maybe not unique, but the interesting way that they decided to do PvP. The way PvP is usually done anymore in games is it is done by mutual consent. You're either playing on dedicated PvP servers or you are entering into specific areas or specific types of content where it is understood that you will be engaging in PvP. Everybody has to agree to be part of that PvP. Obviously, if you're playing on a dedicated PvP server of a game, PvP might happen at a time when you don't want it to, but you have still explicitly assumed the risk that PvP could happen. That's not how Diablo did PvP. In Diablo, all it takes for PvP to start is for one person to say that ‘war were declared’, and suddenly you're in a PvP space without your consent.

Jeffrey: There is no safe spot, not even town.

Alex: Town is supposed to be a safe spot. Sort of. But again, easily bypassed. [Laughs] You know, they found that people loved playing the original Diablo multiplayer. It was really successful on Battle.net. But they had to lock everything down by making sure that they went to a client server architecture. So, that you really couldn't cheat in the same way, and they gave more options for avoiding PvP. PvP still was implemented in the same way where, you know, one person could declare PvP, but they gave you more ways of getting the heck out of there if that was something that you didn't want to participate in. So that's the main points. The other thing that they really wanted to do was they wanted to add a crafting system as well, and this was again inspired by the fact that they were playing so many MMOs. So they implemented an item called the Herodric Cube, which could be used to do some very basic crafting of certain types of things. Some of those things were needed to advance the plot because, of course, they wanted to acclimate you to this new thing. Others were just making improvements, making gems better, all of that kind of stuff in order to improve your gear, and the reason for that is they wanted a crafting system kind of like an MMO had, but they didn't want it to be as complicated as an MMO crafting system because Diablo is all about simplicity, simplicity. As they said in Craddock's books and other places, they wanted every click in the game to have weight. They wanted every click to have an important decision behind it. If I click on the other side of the screen and my character walks over there, what happens? Is something bad going to happen? If I click on this monster and attack this monster first, is that the right thing to do or should I click on this monster first? They wanted every click to have weight, meaning, and consequence, but they didn't want complexity. So the Herodric Cube allowed them to introduce this crafting stuff that they had got interested in in other MMOs, but do so in a way that did not add more complexity than they were hoping to have in the game.

Then hand-in-hand with this idea of having a little light crafting in the game came the idea of having a socketing system for equipment as well, where you could actually have equipment upgrades. So now you weren't just looking for drops of rings and amulets and armor and weapons that were better than what you had. You were also looking for the drops of these little gems that you could socket into your gear and therefore provide them with a few more attributes. This actually came from a rather interesting source. It just came from one of the devs, and this is how they got a lot of their ideas, because there was no dev document for Diablo 2. There was no carefully laid out plan. One of the developers on the game was watching Conan the Barbarian, you know, the Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, and was really enamored with the gems that Conan had in his sword and was like, wouldn't it be cool if we could put gems in our stuff too, and then we can make it like, give your stuff abilities and stuff. That's where that came from. It was no great thought out system. It was just like, gems on weapons are cool. We should do that in Diablo 2.

Jeffrey: If it's good enough for Conan the Barbarian, it's good enough for Diablo 2.

Alex: That's right. Yeah. But it worked very well with the crafting system that they were developing as well with the Haradric Cube, and it was just, it was another very easy gameplay loop that they could throw in there that didn't increase the complexity too much, but still increased the possibilities, still increased the amount of ways you had to kind of hit this proverbial jackpot that we talked about last time, because that's what this entire loot-based kind of game is based on. It's like, not every enemy you kill is going to drop something, and not every drop that you get is going to be something that you can use or something is particularly good. But you get something cool just often, enough that you have to keep clicking to get more. The same kind of psychology that goes into, as we talked about last time, slot machines and even dogs and cats begging at the table. Those are kind of the big kind of things that came in and were changed. Initially, they also looked at changing the graphics. They truly considered going 3D using voxels. They discovered very quickly as they were experimenting with this, they didn't stick with it. They didn't stick with this for very long. They discovered very quickly that it just did not work. It was too slow. The graphics couldn't render fast enough. Everything was being bogged down and they couldn't do this. Even though this game is being developed in the time when 3D graphics accelerators and whatnot are starting to become a little more common and 3D games are starting to become a little more prevalent, by which I mean polygonal games, Diablo 2 maintained that 2D art style and even more surprisingly, maintained that 640x480 resolution.

Jeffrey: Really, it was still that small. But then again, I remember them doing a big patch and it was a major deal when it went to 800x600.

Alex: Well, that was the expansion. It wasn't even a patch. That support was added with the expansion, Lords of Destruction. Yeah, before that, 640x480 was all you got. Which, you know, I think, played to the advantage of the original game because it had that different type of tension in it where, you know, the stuff that's just out of sight out there in the dark is the stuff you're always worried is going to come and get you. But I don't know that that was such a great benefit to Diablo 2, and obviously they didn't either because they eventually changed it. Because when you're in these much wider open spaces rather than in these claustrophobic catacombs, it feels kind of constraining being zoomed in at that level. But games at that time had to decide what kind of trade-off they wanted to make with that. The 2D games did because they would only have, you know, it was pixel art. So zooming in and out didn't have any effect on creating more detail on these characters because the pixels were the pixels. They kind of had to decide, you know, what zoomed in close enough that you can get a little fun detail but is still far enough out that you feel you have a sense of the game world. You know, at the time they were developing the game, they thought that 640x480 was still that sweet spot. But obviously they changed their mind and actually had to redo a lot of assets when they did change their mind in the original game because the original Diablo 2 was not created to be shown at a higher resolution. So there were a lot of places on the edge of screens and whatnot where things did not extend out far enough when you zoomed out to 800x600. I find that interesting. You know, it's very old school in that way. It's resolutely two-dimensional, and that's becoming definitely less and less common by the time Diablo 2 is coming out. But at the same time, time, it did mean that they could just focus on having these hordes of enemies coming at you very fast and maintain very fast action, even when you had up to eight players playing together in multiplayer, either locally or via Battle.net. So I do think it was the right choice, and I don't think Diablo 2 would have probably been nearly as successful if they had tried to make that transition. As I said, they did very briefly look at, do we want to go 3D? Do we want to go voxel on this? And it's like, no, we've got to keep that intense action going. We cannot let this slow our game.

Jeffrey: As part of keeping that intense action going on, is that where the waypoints came in so that you could have a way to get to places that you've been to before, really quickly jump back to town, sell your stuff, jump back into the action?

Alex: Yeah, I mean, I don't really have a lot of information from my sources from Craddock and whatnot about what the thinking behind waypoints were, but yeah, I mean, I think it's fairly obvious that you would need them for that. I mean, the first game had waypoints in a way, in the sense that every four levels, you would find a new entrance back up to the surface. But obviously, this took it to a whole new level. And yeah, from what little they've said, I mean, I think you're right about that. The waypoint system, because, you know, if you were playing on like Battle.net or whatnot, if you were playing single player on your own computer, through the entire course of your game, unless you started over, the level layout remained fixed. Everything that you explored stayed explored and you kept moving. But when you were playing multiplayer, just as in the original game, this was true in the original game as well, everything reset. You're on a new random setup, all the monsters have respawned, all of this, every time that you're playing. However, if you found a waypoint, that information is saved and you still have that information. So the waypoints become a way to very quickly get to the meat of the game. If you're wanting to farm for rare equipment, if you're wanting to get specific stuff, you don't have to slog through all the trash again, necessarily. You can use a waypoint to get right to the heart of the enemy that you want to defeat. And in fact, they found that Mephisto, the boss of Act 3, was the most popular boss by far, for people to farm for gear, and the reason for that is there was a waypoint very close to where you go to fight him. So you could like take the waypoint and be there within like five minutes. Whereas some other bosses, it might take you half an hour of adventuring again before you got back to them. So the waypoints were, as you said, very important to keep up this cycle, not just in the sense of keeping the action going, but also creating cycles within the cycles where you could use waypoints to do specific runs where you thought you had specifically better odds of getting better loot and just farm over and over and over again. Waypoints were definitely another thing that played into that gameplay loop in that way.

Jeffrey: What about quests? Because I remember in the original Diablo, there were a ton of quests, and for whatever reason, it always seemed I never even saw, I want to say, half of them, because there's just so many. And I see other people talk about quests in Diablo 1, and then I go, I never even saw that in all my playthroughs. It seems like with Diablo 2 that they really streamlined that. They set up typically six quests per act.

Alex: Yeah

Jeffrey : There's an exception to that, Act 4.

Alex : Right.

Jeffrey: But then there's not much in the way of side quests, really. You might get a little bit, oh, this thing is in this cave, if you get far enough in the cave or something like that. There's not really quest givers that say, oh, please go kill everything in this cave or kill everything in this, that, or the other thing. It's all tied around those six quests, and that's more or less it.

Alex: You know, again, I don't know that I have a lot of specific insight on this from the dev material that's out there, but you're absolutely right. The first one is taking its cue more from Angband, where you have quests, and then you'll have quest areas that remain fixed. They don't change, even though the rest of the random dungeon changes, and we talked about that in the context of Diablo in the previous episode. Yeah, they used a system with that where sets of quests would appear. So there was this pool of quests. Then there were specific sets of quests that would appear together in a playthrough. You would never see all of them in a playthrough. Yeah, if you kept getting the same set over and over again, then there were some that you would just basically never see at all, because it's not like there was an equal chance for every single quest to appear. It's just there were groups of quests. Some Diablo wikis have some information on how those were grouped together, if people are interested. But yeah, you know, that was taken from the whole Angband thing. That was taken from the roguelike, and I imagine that this was more about just streamlining and the entire experience, because, you know, they were really doubling down and refocusing on that core gameplay loop. They still wanted some quests because they still wanted some story, because story can be an interest driver to keep people moving through a game. But I don't think they wanted this added level of complexity in what you may encounter in a level. There's still some variation in what you can encounter in a level in terms of there's monster pools for each area, and sometimes certain monsters appear and sometimes certain monsters don't, and there are different unique enemies that can appear that don't always appear all the time. But I think they wanted every run to be just a little more consistent, because that moved them towards their goal of keeping this tight gameplay loop going much better. When you can go in and consistently farm areas, when areas don't suddenly change because this quest or that quest is in, or this quest or that quest is not, then it creates a more consistent farming experience in a tighter gameplay loop. That would be my guess. I don't know that for certain, because you're right, there's still quests. Most of them are required to get through a level. A couple of them are optional. You don't actually have to do to get through, but they're much more about moving you along from area to area than that kind of sense of discovery you got from stumbling across a quest in the first game.

The other thing in defense of this that they really tried to do is they really tried to make the difficulty curve just super, super smooth. The main credit for that, at least according to Craddock's work, definitely goes to the lead designer on the game, Stieg Hedlund, who didn't want the difficulty spikes that the first game had. Because as I said earlier in the episode, the first game was divided into 16 levels, but there were themed areas of four levels each. You start in the crypts of the church for four levels, and then you're in the catacombs for four levels, then the caves for four levels, and then what they call hell for four levels. There's huge difficulty spikes, in that game, when you move between those sets of four levels.

Jeffrey: I remember the first time I went into the caves, and dear God, I was slaughtered. I thought I was lord of the world, taking out everything back and forth, left and right, really quickly. And then I step into the caves, and big scary yeti thing comes at me, and kaboom, dead. What's that statue thing? Ah, dead.

Alex: Yeah, the jumps in difficulty every four levels, were huge, because you had a pretty constrained group of enemy types in each of the areas. You had palette swaps, so you had multiple levels of toughness and whatnot, but you know, the first four levels, it's all fallen, skeletons, zombies, and whatever those little four-legged creature thingies are, and those little flying birds. That's really all you see, other than, you know, the butcher, if you get that quest. [Chuckles] You know, you kind of get used to that very quickly, and even though there are more advanced versions that hit a little harder as you descend further down through those first four levels, there's really not a lot of change or surprise in the way they work. There are a couple of exceptions of things that do something a little funky, but for the most part, they just hit a little harder the further down you go. But then, you get to a new biome, and most of the enemy types don't carry over. There's always one or two that carry over, but most of the enemy types don't carry over, and it's a brand new set of enemy types, and they hit completely differently. They're bigger, they're stronger, they're tougher, and of course, as you go further down, you get more and more groups of enemies that just do these horrendous ranged things. In the caves, you have those demons that just shoot lightning at you all day long, you have the things that throw fire at you all day long, then you get to the succubi, and their little blood stars of doom. You hit walls in that game. In general, you have to play through, you know, an earlier part of the game multiple times in order to get strong enough that you can take on the next set of levels, particularly, you know, the jump, I think, between the catacombs and the caves is particularly like that.

Stieg Hedlund was not a fan of that, and he tried to make sure that they had just a very smooth difficulty curve throughout the game. They wanted that difficulty to keep increasing over time, over and over and over again, which is why they added two additional difficulty levels as well once you got through the game to keep you coming back, but you don't have any of those sudden stops. Like, when my friend and I played through the entire game in virtually one sitting right when it came out, we didn't have to backtrack. We could just keep moving forward. You know, the types of enemies would change sometimes, and there would be new challenges sometimes that we would have to figure out, but there was never a point where we just, bam, hit a brick wall, and it's like, this is impossible now. You can actually go through the entire game in one sitting. Once you get on the higher difficulty levels, it gets a little different, but just on that first normal difficulty level, you can just get through the whole thing, and you don't get stopped by those sudden difficulty spikes, and I think that's another way that Diablo 2 very much improved on the original Diablo, and it was 100% deliberate by the dev team that it be that way. In fact, it's kind of funny. Blizzard South initially didn't want the higher difficulty levels in the game because they were, again, they're always afraid of appearance, and always afraid of being accused of having a game that's unbalanced or unpolished, and they were afraid that a new player would come in and choose one of the higher difficulty levels and then get squished because you shouldn't play at nightmare level when you're just starting the game. So they were like, we can't have this, and of course the Blizzard North people were like, we have to constantly increase the challenge on them. We have to have this. So the compromise was that you couldn't do the higher level difficulties until you beat the game on the lower difficulty. You can't do nightmare until you beat it on normal mode. The reason for that is that Blizzard South didn't want anything that could cause accusations of being unbalanced and too hard and all of that. Just kind of a little side note of a place where the two sides of the company differed a little bit.

In terms of the levels themselves, I mean, there's not a lot to say. It's pretty straightforward. You know, it's divided into four acts. Each act takes place in a kind of different biome. They actually worked on the acts sequentially. They did act one, and then they built act two, and then they built act three, and then they built act four. They weren't developing them in parallel. This ended up getting them in a little bit of trouble because they spent a lot of time on act one because this was when they were doing all their proof of concept and figuring out how this would work, the outdoor environments tied to the indoor environments and the little sub dungeons and all of this kind of stuff, and so they just kept throwing stuff into the first level, or the first act I mean, until it was really big by standards of the day. But that meant that the other acts had to be equally as big or it would become a letdown. By not having a dev document and by spending a lot of time on the first act before they even thought about what to do in the other acts of the game, they kind of put themselves into a little bit of a corner in terms of development. This is kind of a good segue into the main thing about this game that was really hard for the company, and that was the crunch.

Jeffrey: The crunch, you say?

Alex: The crunch.

Jeffrey: We're not talking about the nice crispy layer on top of my mac and cheese.

Alex: No, we are not at all. So crunch is a common concept in video game development that is almost as old as video game development. Crunch time is basically that time right before you release a game where everything's due, everything's behind schedule, there are so many bugs, nobody goes home, people work 12, 15 hour days, go home just long enough to shower and sleep if they don't sleep at the office, come back and do it all over again, six days a week at least, maybe even seven days a week for several weeks just to get a game done.

Jeffrey: Which really is terrible for the industry, not to mention the people's lives.

Alex: It is.

Jeffrey: You need to have a good work-life balance in anything you do, because you need that time to, relax and recharge and rethink things and de-stress, decompress. Unfortunately, with a lot of companies, they treat their IT people and developers very poorly, in my opinion, where they have a culture of this and they encourage this. I mean, think about it. You're a salaried employee. You get, let's say, $60,000 a year. That assumes a 40-hour work week. If you're working 80 hours a week, you're effectively making $30,000. A year, because of how much you're working. It's crazy.

Alex: Right. And, you know, it started innocently enough in the video game business. I mean, it didn't start with corporate overlords being like, you are our slaves, you will work when you want us to, because video game development started out as a very personal experience. Most games were made by one or two people, and most of the people that got into making games did it because they found it fun. So, crunch kind of crept in in the early days because these young generally unmarried programmers are having their time of their lives making these games, and so they would just spend all their time making the games because they enjoyed it. But because the industry kind of started out in that way, there was never really any discipline introduced, any real project management introduced into the industry to kind of say, let's put together complicated schedules, and let's put together design docs, and let's put together a list of features, and let's lock that list of features by a certain date. Like, those controls were not put in place early on in the industry because everyone was just kind of winging it.

When it came time that team sizes got bigger, games got more complex, and delivering them became more difficult, nobody had those skills. The people that were running the studios, we talked about the Schaeffers and Brevik in the last episode, the people that were running the studios were the people that discovered games when they were really young and discovered programming when they were really young and thought that was cool. They weren't professional manager types. Most studios, like publishers, publishers were run by, like, professional business types, and believe me, professional business types will exploit you if they feel they can get away with it. But the studios were often run by these people that came up just working all the time because they enjoyed it, and so that became the culture of the industry. So yeah, I'm sure at some point the scales tipped from developers just love getting stuff done to marketing and executive people being like, you are here as long as we need you here. There was a point where it became more nefarious and more exploitative. I'm not trying to claim that it's not exploitative or that exploitation doesn't happen in the industry, because it happens all the time. But it was so insidious because it didn't start that way. It moved in from the bottom up.

Jeffrey: Another way that it is insidious, and this is very true with video games in general, Blizzard is in no ways innocent from this. They did exploit their employees.

Alex: Mhmm.

Jeffrey: An ex-Blizzard employee, Thor, who's fairly popular lately, he worked at Blizzard for a long time and actually goes into detail about what that experience was like and how people were exploited, and then he decided that, you know--

Alex: Yeah.

Jeffrey: --that's not right. I don't like how that's done. I'm going to form my own video game company here, and I'm going to treat the employees right. I'm going to take all the lessons that I learned--

Alex: Mhmm.

Jeffrey: --from working for them and for other places, and making something where people get paid for what they do. They get paid fairly. They're treated fairly. It was amazing. Imagine, especially back in the 90s, early 2000s, Blizzard was like going to nirvana as far as people from the outside coming in for video games.

Alex: Mhmm.

Jeffrey: It was like going to heaven. It was like the dream job. So they would take any pay rate, work any hours they could. Usually those hours were long, and that pay rate was very, very low. I'll throw some of these things into the show notes where Thor talks about this.

Alex: Yeah.

Jeffrey: One thing that he says that I thought was really, really telling was he left Blizzard, went to work for Amazon Game Studios, and a lot of other ex-Blizzard employees went there too. And he worked for a boss, and he said, “Hey, you know, I'm feeling like I'm not working enough here. I feel like I'm not getting anything done. What can I do to be better for you?” The problem was that Thor didn't understand, at the time, that he was overworked horribly. What his boss told him to do is like, take today off, take tomorrow off, take a four-day weekend, relax, reset. Where you were at at Blizzard, you were way overworked, and that set unrealistic expectations. And I will put that thing directly in the show notes. It is amazing and really sad that that is what it is. You would think that higher standards would be at such a company like that, especially back then. Unfortunately, the same thing is very true for many places in the IT industry, because a lot of the people who are attracted to computers and stuff, they're not always socially adept.

Alex: Mhmm.

Jeffrey: They're usually nerds. They're there for the fun of it. They love working with computers. They love doing that thing. They don't know how to properly set boundaries and communicate very well to say, hey, I need some time off. I need to not do this and not think about work for a period of time and have time to myself, have a family, have a work-life balance. I'm a manager now, and that's something I tell my underlings. It's just like, we're in IT, yes, but you got to set appropriate work boundaries. Is it appropriate for us to get an after-hours call because one salesperson can't get email on their phones? Probably not. Is it appropriate to have a way to contact us if production's down and the company's at the standstill after hours? Yes, that makes sense. But conversely, that time should be paid back in what's known as TOIL time, Time Off In Lieu.

Alex: Indeed.

Jeffrey: Where you take time off, later on, once the crisis has been averted. Hey, you work eight hours on a weekend in order to solve a crisis. Fine. You're going to take Friday off.

Alex: Absolutely.

Jeffrey: I really wish more companies did that and encouraged that, and you had bosses that would stand up for their employees, especially in the IT sector that really advocated for this work-life balance.

Alex: Yep, absolutely. You know, the situation with Diablo 2 specifically is, you know, there'd been a few more corporate ownership changes. Davidson & Associates had been sold to CUC International, which merged with another company, HFS, to form Sendent Corporation. Then it became public that, CUC and its leadership had been falsifying its earnings reports for years. People went to prison behind this. You know, when white-collar crime puts you in prison, you know something horrendous went on, because how often do people go to prison for this kind of fraud? It's a sad testament to our legal system, but like, Walter Forbes, the head of CUC, went to prison over this. So as that fell apart, everything was sold, all the game stuff was sold to a French company called Havas, which then sold it to Vivendi, a utility company that was looking to become a major media company, because why not? Now they have really big corporate overlords in Vivendi, and really big public company corporate overlords, more than anything else, are obsessed with hitting slots and hitting targets.

By March 1999, Diablo 2's been in development for a while now. Been in development for, like, a couple of years. Vivendi, needing a hit out of its video game stuff, because a lot of what they ended up with, stuff from Sierra Online and other parts of the company, were not performing particularly well at this time. They really needed the big hit of Diablo 2, which everyone knew was going to be a big hit, because the first one was a hit, and this was going to be the bigger and better sequel. So they started putting real pressure on the head of Blizzard, Mike Morhaime, to get Diablo 2 out, which means that he had to really, really put pressure on the people at Blizzard North to get the game finished. In March 1999, Morhaime and the Blizzard North management made a decision that the game needed to release in November of 1999, because Vivendi was bugging them to have a big hit, and releasing in November would give them a chance to hit the holiday season and get a big return that way. There was still a lot of work to do. So in March 1999, the crunch officially began, with a target of having the game done in November. Within a few months, it became very apparent that the game would not be ready for November. So they delayed it all the way until the next June, June 2000. But just because it was delayed, the crunch didn't stop. They had 18 months straight of crunch on this game.

Jeffrey: That's insane, working 12 to 18 hours a day.

Alex: Yeah, just awful.

Jeffrey: I can only imagine how many families, if there were any of the developers married, who missed important life events from that.

Alex: Yeah.

Jeffrey: Not to mention had damage to their relationship with their spouse.

Alex : Exactly. Yeah. Why did this happen? And there are a lot of reasons, and a lot of these reasons reflect why this happens everywhere in the industry. First of all, these kind of studios were not very disciplined. They did not have disciplined project management. They did not have well thought out development documents. They did not have much structure around what they were doing. So there are a few things going on here. First, some ex-employees of the company who talked to Craddock for his books on Blizzard North, claimed that a lot of time was just wasted by people playing games during work hours, because they're all gamers, and I mean, playing games at work had been part of the DNA of Blizzard North all the way from the beginning when it was still Condor. And, you know, it provided a lot of inspiration. I mean, all of that game playing is what led to the concepts behind Diablo. It's what led to the concepts behind Diablo 2. I mean, at a game company, it is valid to play games as part of your work experience, because part of how you become better at making games is seeing what everyone else is doing in their games. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.

Jeffrey: But like many things in life, you have to have moderation.

Alex : Yeah.

Jeffrey: You need to have a project manager or leadership being there and say, “Algight play games in order to understand what's going on. Playing games occurs on this day for X number of hours, five hours, let's say, on Friday for five hours and Tuesday for three hours.”

Alex: Except the leadership was also playing the games, so that wasn't going to happen.

Jeffrey: [Chuckles

Alex: Particularly EverQuest. Blizzard North was sucked into EverQuest big time. That was one factor, but that's not the only factor. I mean, these people worked hard, too. I mean, too hard, because they were crunching, you know, for 18 months. But the other thing is, you know, like I said, they didn't have a design document, and they were building the game as they went. So like I said, they just added so much stuff to Act 1, because that was kind of their testing ground, that they made Act 1 so big that then they had to make the subsequent acts at least as big, so the player wouldn't feel gypped, wouldn't feel ripped off by having all of this content up front and then having nothing after that. Which is, believe me, is a problem that many games have had, too, where all the attention is paid on the starting area, and then everything else is barren. The Blizzard North people spent a lot of time on the first area, but that meant that they had to spend a lot of time on the subsequent areas, too, in order to have a complete experience.

The other thing is feature creep. They were not very disciplined about adding features to the game. If somebody thought something was cool, they would just add it. There was no design doc that was spelling out all of the features up front. One example of that is the mercenary companions that you can have in the game, that you can hire in the towns. You can hire a rogue in Act 1. You can hire the spear guy in Act 2 and this kind of sorcerer guy in Act 3. It's not important, whatever they were. That was not planned anywhere. It's just very early on in Act 1. Again, Act 1 is where they're doing so much experimenting. There was a time when they had rogues that would just kind of be out in the world and kind of doing some of their own attacking out there, very similar to what they ended up doing in Act 5 in the expansion with the barbarians, I think. Not necessarily as well thought out or as complicated as that, but, you know, they were experimenting with having these NPCs that were just at random spots on the map doing their thing. That got them thinking, well, wouldn't it be cool if you could just have one of these rogues, like, follow you around and shoot at things with you? So they implemented that whole system, but that whole system wasn't planned. It was just like, oh, this is cool. Let's just add this. And so there were a lot of stuff that they added like that. In Act 3, another example that Craddock's books talk about is in Act 3, a lot of the act takes place in this giant temple city of Kurast, and in the couple areas of the map that represent, like, the city itself, there are a lot of buildings, big stone buildings, that you can enter and then, like, the ceiling kind of goes transparent and then you can see inside and you can explore inside all these buildings. Well, initially, none of that was in there. The buildings were there, but the buildings were just window dressing. They were just scenery. Like, you couldn't actually enter the buildings, and then one day someone was like, you know, we got all these big buildings. Wouldn't it be cool if we could actually enter these buildings? So then they had to spend time making that work. They had to give the buildings the ceilings and they had to, you know, make it so you could enter them and do those interiors. And they were doing that all the time. They were just adding stuff as they went along. Yeah, that was creating some difficulties with getting the game done. So you just had a game that was sprawling, that had no design document, that had no real development plan, and where feature creep was running rampant. Then throw on top of the fact that you have a company culture very enamored with games and playing games and has probably gotten a little too enamored with playing games. That's how you end up crunching for 18 months and having to delay a game half a year from its original planned launch date.

Yeah. So they missed the November date. Of course, Jeffrey, you remember just as well as I do from the time that Blizzard missing a launch date was just something we all expected all the time.

Jeffrey: It always seemed like anytime Blizzard would put a game out, whatever they said the release date is, you added a year to it at the very least.

Alex: I still have my original Diablo CD in the slip case and uh in the little pamphlet that's in the case that says like, coming in 1996 Starcraft.

Jeffrey : Yeah, about that.

Alex: You know, a lot of that had to do with Blizzard's ridiculous standards for themselves. I mean, Starcraft ended up having such a long development period because they brought a version to E3 and everyone panned it as just being Warcraft in space. And they were like, that won't do at all. Let's start over and really show them something. You know, a lot of it was because of that Blizzard drive for perfection, but some of it was also just this situation that we have here at Blizzard North where it's just, it's too much. It's too much. They don't know when to rein themselves in. But of course, they do finally get it done after crunching for 18 months. It does get released in June of 2000. A simultaneous worldwide release. I mean, there might've been some territories where it couldn't release simultaneously, but it was more or less a simultaneous worldwide release. Of course, the numbers were just absolutely staggering.

I mean, the first game had done well, but the second game, I mean, obviously the hype was through the roof because Diablo had been played by many and enjoyed by many. People knew what it was now and it had been delayed. It was supposed to come out in November 1999. Now it's not coming out till June 2000. And, you know, demand has reached a fever pitch. Within its first 24 hours, it sold 184,000 units, which again, for a PC game at that time, to sell that in 24 hours is remarkable. It sold a million in a week. One million in a week for a PC game. At this time, million selling PC games were more common, but you were still over the moon if you hit one million in sales on the PC. It hit one million in a week. It hit two million in six weeks. The Guinness Book of World Records is completely full of shit. It's a completely meaningless institution that rarely knows what it's talking about and is only used mostly for publicity stunts. But nevertheless, I still think it's worth saying that the Guinness Book of World Records in 2000 claimed that it was the fastest selling computer game of all time when it hit those two million in six weeks, which, you know, is probably true. I mean, I would never cite the Guinness Book as a reliable source on anything, but it's probably true, and even if it's not true, it's noteworthy that it was attracting that kind of attention as a game.

Jeffrey: Also, I recall around the same time where they were doing these advertisements on TV for Diablo.

Alex: Yeah, I'm sure they probably did. They had a big company behind them in Vivendi who really needed a big hit, so I'm sure they were. Within a year, it had sold four million copies. This is rarefied air for a PC game. This is phenomenally good sales for a PC game in that era. I mean, why not? It perfected that core gameplay loop. It was easy to play online through a much more refined, much less prone to cheating kind of Battle.net structure with the client-server architecture. It was just-- it was so fun. I mean, having lived through both Diablo and Diablo 2, I liked Diablo a lot, but it was nowhere near as addicting as Diablo 2 was, not even close. You could play it over and over again because of the higher difficulties. There was multiplayer, there were the five distinct character classes, all of which had very different ways of doing things. You know, you had the dual-wielding, berserking barbarian, you had the paladin that was all about use of auras, which, interesting enough, were another thing stolen from Everquest and the features of the bard class in that game became the auras in Diablo 2. You had the Amazon, if you wanted to get a little more ranged action going on. You had the sorceress that kind of brought back the magic feel from the first game, and then you had the necromancer, my personal favorite. You know, raising armies of zombies, sending out golems, and corpse explosions.

Jeffrey: So many corpse explosions.

Alex: I mean, there were just so many ways to play. You know, the game was long enough that once you beat the whole thing, going back and playing through it all again, not necessarily immediately after, but soon after, didn't feel too bad because it was a pretty long game. All the acts were very long, except Act 4 was shortened because, did I mention they were crunching and not getting the game ready on time? So 4 is a little truncated, but the other three acts are very big, and it's just so addicting. So yeah, it was a huge hit. That's probably where we should stop this one, kind of getting Diablo 2 out the door. We'll conclude this kind of-- going to be a trilogy of episodes, kind of loosely looking at Blizzard North. I mean, we're not going super deep in-depth on every aspect of Blizzard North. We're focused primarily on the Diablos, but we'll finish this kind of trilogy of Blizzard North by looking at kind of the aftermath. Looking at their attempts to move on from Diablo 2, and looking at some of the politics that ended up driving the founders from the company and leading them to outside of Blizzard North, try to create what today is recognized as one of the first looter shooters in Hellgate London.

Jeffrey: So I was surprised that we're going to a three-parters with this, but I can't even call it Diablo 3 for the next episode.

Alex: There'll be a little Diablo 3 talk, but not the Diablo 3 that was actually released, because Blizzard North did start on a Diablo 3. We don't have a lot of information on that, so the episode is not going to be all about Diablo 3. We'll touch on it a little bit.

Jeffrey: Really it's to look at what became of Blizzard North, how they developed and progressed from there, what else they did, how they left Blizzard or got driven out, as you said.

Alex: Mhmm.

Jeffrey: What ultimately happened to our friend from Condor who became Blizzard North and then became something else.

Alex: Flagship Studios.

Jeffrey: You just ruined the drama and suspense. We're trying to get them to come back, and you're telling them what the punchline is. For shame, Doc.

Alex: Yes. But to maintain the suspense, I won't tell them whose upper arm gets bruised.

Jeffrey: Sure. And bonus points if you get that one.

Alex : [Laughs]

Jeffrey: Next time on They Create Worlds. Check out our show notes at podcast.theycreateworlds.com, where we have links to some of the things that we discussed in this and other episodes. You can check out Alex's video game history blog at videogamehistorian.wordpress.com. Alex's book, They Create Worlds, The Story of the People and Companies That Shaped The Video Game Industry Volume 1 can now be ordered through CRC Press and at major online retailers. Email us at feedback@theycreateworlds.com. Please consider supporting us on Patreon at patreon.com/theycreateworlds. If you do decide to support us, sign up through the website and not through the iOS app. This saves you from the 30% Apple markup. You can also help get the word out by leaving a review on your favorite podcasting service. We now have the podcast available on YouTube. Intro music is Airplane Mode by Josh Woodward, found at joshwoodward.com/song/airplane mode, used under a Creative Commons attribution license. Outro music is Bacterial Love by Role Music, found at freemusicarchive.org, used under a Creative Commons attribution license.